• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

In Your Noble and Esteemed Opinion, What is "Enlightenment"?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
In your noble and esteemed opinion, what is "enlightenment"*?

Do you accept Jerome Gellman's notion that enlightenment involves more than merely having a certain kind or type of experience, but also involves a specific kind of transformation of one's psyche? If so, how would you characterize that transformation?

Does any kind of knowledge -- including knowledge of religious literature or holy scriptures -- bring one closer to enlightenment? If so, what kind of knowledge?


BONUS QUESTION: If you were to ask an enlightened person whether or not there was a god, would he or she necessarily give you a true answer, assuming they were being perfectly honest with you?


*By "enlightenment" I mean here what some would call religious, spiritual, or mystical enlightenment, as distinct from the historical movement known as the European Enlightenment.
 

Geoff-Allen

Resident megalomaniac
Her's a little something I found recently -

One of the problems in explaining enlightenment is that we have to use words. Words are only symbols and don’t give the real understanding. The letters of a word are merely a code that the mind translates into meaning. Words only have meaning if you already have an experiential knowledge of what the words mean. If you were blind could you understand color through just words? Can you describe music to someone using only words? Can you describe the emotion of love only using the symbols of words? Words are only effective at communicating experience if the experience is already known. You know color, music, and emotion because you have perceived them directly. Enlightenment is not an experience that one already has a reference for and so a word description is not likely to be meaningful enough to convey an understanding.

For a little more -

Enlightenment | What is enlightenment | How to become enlightened | Compassion | Laughter | Divine Comedy
 

Electra

Active Member
I'm not even sure i believe in a final 'enlightenment', i think it just keeps going and going, so one can not simply be 'enlightened'

i think 'enlightenment' is knowing self ~ which is an infinite task
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
In your noble and esteemed opinion, what is "enlightenment"*?

Do you accept Jerome Gellman's notion that enlightenment involves more than merely having a certain kind or type of experience, but also involves a specific kind of transformation of one's psyche? If so, how would you characterize that transformation?

Does any kind of knowledge -- including knowledge of religious literature or holy scriptures -- bring one closer to enlightenment? If so, what kind of knowledge?


BONUS QUESTION: If you were to ask an enlightened person whether or not there was a god, would he or she necessarily give you a true answer, assuming they were being perfectly honest with you?


*By "enlightenment" I mean here what some would call religious, spiritual, or mystical enlightenment, as distinct from the historical movement known as the European Enlightenment.


Enlightenment to me is knowing your place in this reality and understanding your relationship with it. Yes I agree with that statement of Jerome. The transformation is slow and over time. To find enlightenment take a simple statement you want to know and openly research it until you have your answer. When I say openly you need to look in every alley way, every country and every view. If you stick with one scripture or religious literature you will not find it.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
My favorite comment along these lines:

Before enlightenment, a tree is a tree and a rock is a rock.

While moving towards enlightenment, a tree is not a tree and a rock is not a rock.

In enlightenment, a tree is a tree and a rock is a rock.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The mystic, in meditation, sees light within his head. That light slowly increases in intensity as the years of sadhana and devotion pass. Finally, in what is termed nirvikalpa samadhi in Sanskrit, (a non-experience) awareness merges into that light, as intense as the sun. An arc of light connects the pituitary and pineal, and remains there, hence the soul is forever changed.

Deep, mystical, beyond words, the Self, existing only because of itself.

en - LIGHT - en - ment
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
In your noble and esteemed opinion, what is "enlightenment"*?

Do you accept Jerome Gellman's notion that enlightenment involves more than merely having a certain kind or type of experience, but also involves a specific kind of transformation of one's psyche? If so, how would you characterize that transformation?

Does any kind of knowledge -- including knowledge of religious literature or holy scriptures -- bring one closer to enlightenment? If so, what kind of knowledge?


BONUS QUESTION: If you were to ask an enlightened person whether or not there was a god, would he or she necessarily give you a true answer, assuming they were being perfectly honest with you?


*By "enlightenment" I mean here what some would call religious, spiritual, or mystical enlightenment, as distinct from the historical movement known as the European Enlightenment.
One is enlightened when the little bulb floating over your head turns on. :D
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I shall build upon @Tumah 's post.

Enlightenment is the understanding of something that was previously unrealized.

And with that understanding comes a new way of thinking. It isn't just about knowing something new. It is about living it.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Enlightenment is the illusion of understanding things.
But if we're lucky, this illusion is satisfying & results in good decisions.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
What precedes the desire for enlightenment?
Could it be 'awe'?

Awe is an intuition for the dignity of all things, a realization that things not only are what they are but also stand, however remotely, for something supreme. Awe is a sense for transcendence, for the reference everywhere to mystery beyond all things. It enables us to perceive in the world intimations of the divine. ... to sense the ultimate in the common and the simple: to feel in the rush of the passing the stillness of the eternal. What we cannot comprehend by analysis, we become aware of in awe.
Abraham Heschel
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I can't say where I came to this from, but unfortunately I have some rather negative associations with the word "enlightenment" unless it's specifically used in the context of Buddhism. In Buddhism, my understanding is that it simply refers to knowledge that frees a person from samsara. When used outside of Buddhism, the word tends to make me think of than holier-than-thou types who slap some special label on themselves to feel/look special to themselves or others. Put another way, the word doesn't hold any meaning aside from ego, vanity, and social posturing.

I'm well-aware of how off-color this interpretation is (it certainly isn't noble or esteemed). Like I said, I really don't know where this association came from. Maybe the appropriation of this term outside of Buddhism rubs me the wrong way? Maybe I've run into too many New Age types who use the word and have poor character? Maybe I'm tired of seeing people discount the value experiences because it isn't from some "enlightened" guru? I don't know. I avoid using the term entirely outside of referencing the concept in Buddhism where appropriate. I certainly wouldn't consider it a goal of any sort.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
"Enlightenment" is an evocative and poetic word. To me it's reflective of having a 'veil' removed so that one moves closer to the source. It's only when the last, 7th, veil is removed that one unites with the source.

BONUS QUESTION: If you were to ask an enlightened person whether or not there was a god, would he or she necessarily give you a true answer, assuming they were being perfectly honest with you?

As enlightenment is moving closer to the Truth, truth is something that such a being automatically manifests. The word "God", all words, are in some sense untrue because they don't capture and hold the reality which is beyond language. But we use words so an Enlightened being would use that word or a synonym.

It's like the difference between the word "laughter" and a ROTFLMAO experience where you feel like you're going to die laughing.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Another toughie, @Sunstone. I guess, to me, enlightenment begins when a person realizes that they are in total control of their emotions and reactions to everyday life; i.e., they know that they are picking and choosing how they move through this life.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
In your noble and esteemed opinion, what is "enlightenment"*?

Awareness, acceptance, and motivation in good, rational balance.

Do you accept Jerome Gellman's notion that enlightenment involves more than merely having a certain kind or type of experience, but also involves a specific kind of transformation of one's psyche? If so, how would you characterize that transformation?

Sounds just about right. It takes learning to deal with reality in a certain way with some consistency for one to experience enlightenment, IMO.

Does any kind of knowledge -- including knowledge of religious literature or holy scriptures -- bring one closer to enlightenment? If so, what kind of knowledge?

Mainly human sciences, but also some non-revealed religious writings.

But mostly the experience of living in Dharmic environments, under the blessed influence of wise and well meaning people.


BONUS QUESTION: If you were to ask an enlightened person whether or not there was a god, would he or she necessarily give you a true answer, assuming they were being perfectly honest with you?

I must assume so.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Enlightenment is the illusion of understanding things.
But if we're lucky, this illusion is satisfying & results in good decisions.
It sounds like you believe that true understanding is only complete understanding. As opposed to say degrees in understanding.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
My favorite comment along these lines:

Before enlightenment, a tree is a tree and a rock is a rock.

While moving towards enlightenment, a tree is not a tree and a rock is not a rock.

In enlightenment, a tree is a tree and a rock is a rock.
what's the difference?
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
In your noble and esteemed opinion, what is "enlightenment"*?

Do you accept Jerome Gellman's notion that enlightenment involves more than merely having a certain kind or type of experience, but also involves a specific kind of transformation of one's psyche? If so, how would you characterize that transformation?

Does any kind of knowledge -- including knowledge of religious literature or holy scriptures -- bring one closer to enlightenment? If so, what kind of knowledge?


BONUS QUESTION: If you were to ask an enlightened person whether or not there was a god, would he or she necessarily give you a true answer, assuming they were being perfectly honest with you?


*By "enlightenment" I mean here what some would call religious, spiritual, or mystical enlightenment, as distinct from the historical movement known as the European Enlightenment.

When you finally stop searching, and have found peace. That to me is enlightenment, however imperfect it is as a definition.
 
Top