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In which religion should I have faith?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Mr Spinkles, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. Mr Spinkles

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    I'm not sure what this has to do with my hypothetical, which asks for a method by which one can determine which religions are valid. For example, how did you decide to have faith in Christian dogma/scriptures rather than those of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc?
     
  2. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    "Maybe you are only exposed to pseudo-Christianity."

    Sure, thats what everyone says when their faith is shown to have a negative aspect to it. Spinks, you know the answer to your questions, there is no way to show validity of a religion. Because it is all subjective. NetDoc claims to follow truth, a hindu claims another truth, a buddhist another, etc... The fact is, religion should not be used to find truth. That is what people don't understand, it is impossible to find truth through religion. It should be used to find peace, goodness, and love. Truth in religion is subjective, but when a religion promotes peace, goodness and love AND its followers prove it by example. Than the religion is doing its job. That is my opinion.
     
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  3. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Excellent!!

    Thanks.
     
  4. Mr Spinkles

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    Mine too. :)
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Spinks,

    Maybe I misread your initial post, but I thought you were asking for a way to pick a faith, not how to determine if it was "true".

    In post #3, I asked what type of faith were you shopping for, and gave a few choices.

    I then pointed out that whatever faith you chose, that you should "Count the cost".

    In various exchanges, I contended that EVERY faith requires sacrifice of some sort. So many people "Claim" to believe and rarely are they ready to pay the price for true belief.

    So now you ask what this has to do to determine if a belief is valid... well it actually has a LOT to do with determining which faith to follow. Why chose a belief that is not worth following? Why claim a belief if you aren't willing to pay the price to follow it fully?

    More importantly, why judge a belief by a bunch of people that won't pay the full price to follow it? Vigil, you have a problem with this, and that's pretty normal. But really, shouldn't you judge a symphony after it's been played by competent players who have actually practiced it? Judging it as it is played by beginning students who have not paid the price of practice, practice, practice is premature at best.

    Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. I mean why waste your life playing "God" instead of putting a %100 into the faith of your choice. Don't just do it half way... dive into it completely.

    BTW, religion means nothing. Finding God means everything.
     
  6. Mr Spinkles

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    I see what you're saying--it's my fault for not being clear: I want to have faith in something that is true. So, by what methods do I determine which religious doctrines are true (and therefore worthy of faith)?

    Why must it "cost" anything to believe things that are true? I'm not aware of any "cost" involved with believing that trees exist, for example...it's not difficult for me to accept, nor does it require me to pray or sing or give money to any collection plates, or knock on doors and proclaim to everyone who doesn't believe in trees the truth of their existence. The "cost" that a belief requires of its believers, then, seems independent of the validity of the belief.

    We're getting a bit sidetracked here, but I'm curious...it almost sounds like you would discourage people from believing in things that "cost" too much. But why? Doesn't it cost a lot to be Christian? Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying....again this is a bit of a sidetrack, I'm just curious. :)

    I'm a bit confused as to what you're saying here. I would consider any belief that is true as worth "following". The question is, how do I determine which beliefs are true?


    The thing is NetDoc, from my perspective theists are the ones who are playing God. I don't believe there is a God, so to me, all the things that theists attribute to God actually come from themselves. In my opinion, this explains a lot.


    NetDoc although I admire and respect the firmness of your convictions, it would help to remember your audience. The statement "Finding the Easter Bunny means everything" sounds impressive only to those who believe in the Easter Bunny. ;)
     
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  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Is a man free to play a piano who has never practiced?

    No, he is only "free" to bang on the keys.

    The pursuit of God and truth is much the same. Like the budding pianist, there are many sacrifices that have to be made. Time must be spent in both practice or study.

    This time spent might be the practicing of the religion... you only get good at giving by giving. You can only learn prayer by praying. Unfortunately, most people see religion as "just" a belief that should not require any sacrifices. They want to be religious RIGHT NOW and they are not willing to devote any time or energy to it. Their belief has no discernible impact on their life or their choices as they practice their mediocrity.

    Now, I can't speak for all or even most of the religions of the world, but I can speak for Christianity. It requires your all! I suspect that most religions require far more than their "adherents" realize or are ready to give.

    John 12:24. I tell you the truth, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    John 12:25 The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

    Really, really sad.
     
  9. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    "Vigil, you have a problem with this, and that's pretty normal. "

    No, you have a problem misunderstanding me. I have met MANY wonderful christians, hindu's, muslims, buddhists, taoists, etc... I judge the good by how they act, and I judge the bad by how they act. However, if a majority of followers act horribly in my opinion, than the religion is not doing its job. I find buddhism to be a great example of this, more buddhists "walk the walk" than christians. Does this mean that christianity is bad? No, it means christians are. Please don't misunderstand me, I don't judge the religion, but its followers.
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    No, I "misunderstand" you just fine. :biglaugh:

    I don't judge golf as a sport by the Saturday afternoon duffers. I judge it by Tiger Woods as well as other pros. Most golf enthusiast belong to the former group.

    I don't judge HTML by my mediocre sites. I judge it by looking at those sites crafted by a master: someone who has spent the time and effort to learn his craft well.

    I don't judge all politicians by the money grubbing charlatans (Not all are Republican :D ). I judge them by those living up to the ideals of being a public servant.

    Sure, I will discern these people individually and place them into one of several categories of attitude, tenure and capabilities, but the entire genre should be judged by the creme of the crop.

    That being said, I am not YOU. Unlike Deut, I like it when a peson sacrifices for the greater good. I think it's great when by discipline and sheer will power a person "dies" to themself and does something far greater. Ineveitably, we call these people "great" and even some we call "herroes".
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Was there a reason for this free floating ad hominem? Surely you're not equating one who "sacrifices for the greater good" with one "who hates his life in this world" ... :rolleyes:
     
  12. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I am not "Surely", but it is as you say: who hates his life in this world means we sacrifice for the greater good. Put others ahead of yourself and you will find yourself.

    What did you think it meant? That we went around with a dour outlook on life? Now that's sad!
     
  13. kiwimac

    kiwimac Brother Napalm of God's Love

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    Try Zoroastrianism,

    The FIRST monotheistic faith and still the best!

    Kiwimac :D
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Old Humpty-Dumpty had nothing on some Christian Apologists. :banghead3
     
  15. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    "No, I "misunderstand" you just fine."

    Right, well let me try to understand you. What you are talking about is a common logical fallacy. Lets look at this argument...

    There are 50 oranges in a bushel.
    The first row of 10 are nice and juicy,
    therefore the rest of the 50 will be nice and juicy.

    Now, is that a valid argument, OF COURSE NOT!!!! The other 40 could be rotten. Therefore, if you only judge the whole by its minorities, you are not seeing the whole picture. Or as I should say, you aren't see the "true picture." :)
     
  16. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    But if the other forty are "apples" then maybe they didn't come from an orange tree?

    Matthew 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
     
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    And so it would apear, niether do you! :D
     
  18. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Or, as Eric Hoffer says, you lose yourself
     
  19. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    "But if the other forty are "apples" then maybe they didn't come from an orange tree?"

    Oh please. You wouldn't know anyway. You don't think they are important enough to even look at. For all you know, the 10 juicy oranges you are paying attention to, aren't the juciest ones in the bunch. A small percentage cannot make up for the whole. Its just not logically possible. If you look at the whole, than you can better assess the validity of the whole. And if the majority don't cut it, than the whole doesn't cut it. Because the fact is, what is written on paper is all good and well, but if it can't be practiced, than its no good at all.
     
  20. croak

    croak Trickster

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    In my case, I was brought up, in some way, as a Muslim. However, I barely understood it. I remember reading about Islam in a book, but was too young to understand it. Now, a tiny thing scared me (I was a kid ;) ), and I decided Islam was scary and I'd better pick a "nicer" religon. Now, though, I have decided, for myself, that Islam is correct. At one point, I remember thinking that pork used to be bad because of worms, but now it's healthy. I remember telling my "spirit guides," in the form of animals, to help change the weather or help someone. I remember saying a Christian prayer. I remember thinking that the Egyptians may have been right in the way, that in some way there were "lesser gods" or angels or spirit guides. I remember believing that God should be completely loving, that no matter what you are, He loves you, even if you hate Him. So, obviously, I've been through a lot of things, trying to decide for myself. Only after my teacher gave me a sort of push to learn more about Islam(at the time I said I was Muslim, because I didn't have a name for my invented religion). So, I decided to double-check about Islam, and found it that it actually wasn't "scary," as I had previously thought. So, in which religion should you have faith? The one that makes sense, the one that cannot be proven wrong. For me, it is Islam.

    Worshipping fire is not a smart decision.
     
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