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In Support of the Bible, pt.5: "The Exodus & Red Sea Crossing."

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
With all the dispute regarding the Bible's authenticity, I though I'd post some evidences in favor of it being accurate. I don't agree with everything this website says, but I appreciate their honest endeavor to generate interest in reading and having an open mind about the Bible.

I hope that those reading these posts, will enjoy it. But I'm sure there are some who won't: probably most of these will view it with apathy, possibly even some with hatred. If so, maybe they can find something to learn.

From http://www.2001translation.com/Authenticity.htm#_5

"The Exodus and the Red Sea Crossing
Is there any archeological evidence of the events that led up to the Exodus and/or IsraEl's escape through a parted Red Sea? Yes, however it is simply ignored by secular historians. For example, notice how a plague-like destruction is described as coming upon Egypt on a fragmented stela that is located on the third pylon of the Karnak temple (see 'The Tempest Stele of Ahmose I'). It is interesting that this stela has been dated to around the death of Ahmose I, who may well be the pharaoh of the Exodus). If you read it, you can clearly see that this appears to be a description of one of the plagues that God sent upon Egypt before Israel's departure, as it was explained from the viewpoint of the hard-hearted ruler of that country.

What is the opinion of secular 'scholars?' Note the added comment after the translation of the stele, as is found on the site, The Tempest Stele of Ahmose I:
'This text, like so many others, is grist for the busy mills of Bible apologists, in this case of those attempting to find proof for the Biblical plagues and the Exodus. The incongruities of their arguments do not seem to bother them, but it might be better for them to accept that (to this date at least) no archaeological proof has been found yet for anything written about in the Bible pertaining to the Bronze Age, save possibly the mere existence of the people of Israel.'

So note: According to this explanation, the evidence can't be accepted due to a lack of evidence… and the fact that there is an IsraEl and that they have written records, doesn't count. Can this statement be considered truly objective? Although history and archeology are virtually FILLED with proofs of the Exodus, secular critics continue to claim that they don't exist! Consider for example, the fact that Egypt's historical records tell of a people called the Hyksos, who are obviously the IsraElites, since they lived in Egypt during the same period, and they were identified as such by no less than the noted ancient Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in his famous work, Antiquities of the Jews. And in fact, modern Egyptian records show that the Pharaohs of the Sixteenth Egyptian Dynasty were all Hyksos (Hebrews)! No proof? How about ignored proof?

There is an article by Jonathan Gray, titled In Search Of Pharaoh's Lost Army, which offers interesting (supposed) archeological evidence and conclusions concerning the Exodus. We suggest that you examine this document cautiously, since we are aware of the fact that Bible archeology (like secular archeology) is often inaccurate and untrustworthy."
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
I studied archaeology and there is NO evidence for the Exodus.

Some Hebrew being in Egypt, even Hebrew slaves, in no way means the Exodus took place.

*
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Ingledsva,
Some Jews being in Egypt, also does not prove that there was no exodus.
Since the Bible, according to the Almighty God, Jehovah, is His WORD, and He said that He would protect His word from all generations, I believe I will take His word before any human, Psalm 12:6,7, Isaiah 40:8, 2Timothy 3:16,17, 2Peter 1:20,21, 1Peter 1:25. God had His word written down so that all men could know Him, and His purpose for this earth!!!.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Red Sea crossing?
Maybe we should start with a proper translation of Yam Suph.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva,
Some Jews being in Egypt, also does not prove that there was no exodus.
Since the Bible, according to the Almighty God, Jehovah, is His WORD, and He said that He would protect His word from all generations, I believe I will take His word before any human, Psalm 12:6,7, Isaiah 40:8, 2Timothy 3:16,17, 2Peter 1:20,21, 1Peter 1:25. God had His word written down so that all men could know Him, and His purpose for this earth!!!.

NOPE!

We know from archaeology that there were Hebrew in Egypt at different times.

However, not in great numbers.

And there is absolutely NO archaeological evidence for the Exodus.

Num 1:45 So were all those that were numbered of the children of Israel, by the house of their fathers, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war in Israel;

Num 1:46 Even all they that were numbered were six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty.

Num 1:47 But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.


SO - supposedly - we have 603,550 men 20 years and older.

ALL/or most of them would have had wives.

They would have had multiple children, and including the males under 20.

Add in the Levites, and stragglers, and we obviously have "way" over a million people wandering in a relatively small desert.


They would have left trails, markers, camp sites with fires, garbage heaps with animal bones - and discarded clothing - broken sandals - pottery - baskets - lost trinkets/jewelry - etc., - giant poop piles, burials of those dying during the trek, etc.

Caravans crossed that desert constantly, other people would have noted, and reported to authorities, a group that huge wandering in the desert.

It did not happen.

EDIT - Forgot to add - A book written by humans - claiming it is from God - does not actually make it from God.

*
 

Shad

Veteran Member
With all the dispute regarding the Bible's authenticity, I though I'd post some evidences in favor of it being accurate. I don't agree with everything this website says, but I appreciate their honest endeavor to generate interest in reading and having an open mind about the Bible.

I hope that those reading these posts, will enjoy it. But I'm sure there are some who won't: probably most of these will view it with apathy, possibly even some with hatred. If so, maybe they can find something to learn.

From http://www.2001translation.com/Authenticity.htm#_5

"The Exodus and the Red Sea Crossing
Is there any archeological evidence of the events that led up to the Exodus and/or IsraEl's escape through a parted Red Sea? Yes, however it is simply ignored by secular historians. For example, notice how a plague-like destruction is described as coming upon Egypt on a fragmented stela that is located on the third pylon of the Karnak temple (see 'The Tempest Stele of Ahmose I'). It is interesting that this stela has been dated to around the death of Ahmose I, who may well be the pharaoh of the Exodus). If you read it, you can clearly see that this appears to be a description of one of the plagues that God sent upon Egypt before Israel's departure, as it was explained from the viewpoint of the hard-hearted ruler of that country.

This has been interpreted as the Thera event which has evidence in support. Your interpretation only shows the your miracles are natural events primitives thought were from a God(s).

What is the opinion of secular 'scholars?' Note the added comment after the translation of the stele, as is found on the site, The Tempest Stele of Ahmose I:
'This text, like so many others, is grist for the busy mills of Bible apologists, in this case of those attempting to find proof for the Biblical plagues and the Exodus. The incongruities of their arguments do not seem to bother them, but it might be better for them to accept that (to this date at least) no archaeological proof has been found yet for anything written about in the Bible pertaining to the Bronze Age, save possibly the mere existence of the people of Israel.'

Yup

So note: According to this explanation, the evidence can't be accepted due to a lack of evidence… and the fact that there is an IsraEl and that they have written records, doesn't count.

No, your speculation has been dismissed in favour of an explanation that has evidence.

Can this statement be considered truly objective? Although history and archeology are virtually FILLED with proofs of the Exodus, secular critics continue to claim that they don't exist!

Excepts there not "filled" with proofs. Hence why secular sources as pointed out above by you do not view the Exodus as a historical event

Consider for example, the fact that Egypt's historical records tell of a people called the Hyksos, who are obviously the IsraElites, since they lived in Egypt during the same period, and they were identified as such by no less than the noted ancient Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in his famous work, Antiquities of the Jews. And in fact, modern Egyptian records show that the Pharaohs of the Sixteenth Egyptian Dynasty were all Hyksos (Hebrews)! No proof? How about ignored proof?

The Hyksos were never Israelite, they were polytheists and ruled northern Egypt. They worshipped Baal-Set. You are repeating decades long dead ideas. Josephus used Manetho who was wrong. It is not ignored, it was dismissed. You are so far behind in the views of archaeology you really know nothing at all.

There is an article by Jonathan Gray, titled In Search Of Pharaoh's Lost Army, which offers interesting (supposed) archeological evidence and conclusions concerning the Exodus. We suggest that you examine this document cautiously, since we are aware of the fact that Bible archeology (like secular archeology) is often inaccurate and untrustworthy."

Jonathan Gray is not an archaeologists but a hack, his views have zero merit. His evidence has been refuted by experts so there is no point in entertaining his nonsense. What is next? Are you going to bring up Ron Wyatts?

Your research is laughable. Never get your research from an apologist website.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I studied archaeology and there is NO evidence for the Exodus.

Some Hebrew being in Egypt, even Hebrew slaves, in no way means the Exodus took place.

*

Yes YOU are 100% correct.

The exodus is mythology with little to no historical core.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Be that as it may, consider the logistics. Why would anyone leaving Egypt head East?
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Be that as it may, consider the logistics. Why would anyone leaving Egypt head East?

We know Israelites evolved from displaced Canaanites for the most part, and that Israelites were never in Egypt

The exodus is a myth, it is a literary creation and it is in context theology telling the pseudohistorical founding myth of people beat down so many times that had no clue of their own origins.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Why would anyone leaving Egypt head East?

During this period known as the bronze age collapse, many civilizations crumbled and its people scattered in all directions.


I agree with you in that the myth makes little sense as written and this direction does not make sense, but the whole idea the Israelites ever meant reed sea, is a pathetic attempt to turn mythology into history.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We know Israelites evolved from displaced Canaanites for the most part, and that Israelites were never in Egypt

The exodus is a myth, it is a literary creation and it is in context theology telling the pseudohistorical founding myth of people beat down so many times that had no clue of their own origins.
You're preaching to the choir, Outhouse. I'm just pointing out one of many conundrums and inconsistencies in the account.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
You're preaching to the choir, Outhouse. I'm just pointing out one of many conundrums and inconsistencies in the account.

That's why I agreed the direction is also flawed.

I think the original translation of Yam Suph is correct as translated is my main point.


Having god clear a path through a reed pond is not how it is written.


Having your patriarch open the seas themselves and swallow a might army, is the context of what was mythologically written.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Didn't the Hebrews have a different and well known term for the Red Sea -- a term the Bible translators would have been familiar with?
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
I studied archaeology and there is NO evidence for the Exodus.

Some Hebrew being in Egypt, even Hebrew slaves, in no way means the Exodus took place.

*

You must be kidding me. Have you read Josephus' works. Which book/chapter/section of it are actually supported by archaeology?

Hate to burst your bubble but among all the written history, perhaps less than 1% of them can actually be supported by archaeology. So don't overstate it to deceive people and yourself.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You must be kidding me. Have you read Josephus' works. Which book/chapter/section of it are actually supported by archaeology?

You mistake Josephus theology for history, as he did.

Hate to burst your bubble but among all the written history, perhaps less than 1% of them can actually be supported by archaeology. So don't overstate it to deceive people and yourself.

Irrelevant to your claims as evidence which contradicts your view exists.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
You must be kidding me. Have you read Josephus' works. Which book/chapter/section of it are actually supported by archaeology?

Hate to burst your bubble but among all the written history, perhaps less than 1% of them can actually be supported by archaeology. So don't overstate it to deceive people and yourself.

I'll assume you mean Titus Flavius Josephus.

Josephus was not there. He is first century. And a lot of what Josephus has said has been found to be wrong, - or made up.

Josephus just repeats what he has read or heard. There is no proof in his writings about Exodus.

Here is an online site for people to read what he did write about Exodus. http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-2.htm

There is NO Archaeological evidence for the Exodus. And NO corroborating writings, - from the Egyptians for instance, or other groups whom would have written about such a huge group of people crossing the caravan routes in that small desert.

*
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
I'll assume you mean Titus Flavius Josephus.

Josephus was not there. He is first century. And a lot of what Josephus has said has been found to be wrong, - or made up.

Josephus just repeats what he has read or heard. There is no proof in his writings about Exodus.

Here is an online site for people to read what he did write about Exodus. http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-2.htm

There is NO Archaeological evidence for the Exodus. And NO corroborating writings, - from the Egyptians for instance, or other groups whom would have written about such a huge group of people crossing the caravan routes in that small desert.

*

So you are still clueless.

Let me make it simpler for you . Show us a history book which is supported by archaeology.


Among the thousands of nations ever existed on earth ever since humans can write. Shed us some light on how much written history is supported by archaeology?
 
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