In Short - The Noachide/7 Mitvahs an explaination

[Ehav4Ever]

"Not about a biological defilement"???
Then how can our actions be defiled by our parents?
Or are you saying that a Jew's actions can be defiled by his or her parents' actions, but non-Jews don't have to worry about that happening?

See my above comment about the theif. This applies to both Jews and non-Jews. The consideration is that non-Jews and Jews alike make choices. It may be better to define the defilement as a cycle of bad choices. Anyone on the planet can break the cycle. Jews by keeping the Torah from Mount Sinai as individuals and as a nation. Non-Jews by keeping the Noachide laws in the nations they are a part of.

There is a example that the Rambam gives that may explain this really well. I did a video where I mention the example in response to someone who made a false claim about one of the Rambam's statements. You can listen to the whole video but about 17:20 to 21:55 is where I describe the example.

 

[Deeje]

Carried over from a question in another thread. Questions came up about the Noachide "movement."

This explaination may give a better insight to what is meant by a Noachide.

1. According to Torah and Halakha Adam was given 6 mitzvoth by Hashem. The 7th mitzvah was given during the generation of Noach and his sons, after the flood. These mitzvahs are termed as the 7 Mitzvoth or as the "Noachide Laws." They are considered the mitzvahs that all humans are created to hold by - i.e. all humans are considered to be Noachides, if you will. Some have followed/follow these mitzvah's many don't or only partially do.
2. During the time of Abraham, he and his household accepted another mitzvah of circumcision. During the time of Isaac and Jacob more mitzvah's were accepted that set them apart from the nations around them.
3. When the Torah was given at Mount Sinai, all of Jacab's descendants and some of the mixed multitude accepted the 613 mitzvah's as a nation based on Torah together.
4. In the mitzvahs, given at Mount Sinai, there were also the reality of both the Geir Tzedeq (a non-Jew who converts and lives exactly as a Jew) and a Geir Toshav (a non-Jew who accepts the 7 Mitzvoth/Noachide Laws and is allowed to live in/pass through Israel. A geir toshav is not a convert like a Geir Tzedeq.) Often the english translations are not clear on this issue and they often categorize both of them as "the stranger." The Hebrew is more clear and so is Jewish law.
5. Both the Torah given at Mount Sinai to the people of Israel and the 7 Mitzvoth/Noachide imcumbant on the entire world come from Hashem.
6. Thus, there is no requirement for a non-Jew to become a Jew in order to be in the favor of Hashem or to have a portion in the world to come. If a non-Jew follows the 7 Mitzvoth/Noachide laws they are doing the will of Hashem for the non-Jewish nations.

Since you are not in a Jewish forum, many readers may not be familiar with your terminology....so a brief explanation might be in order if you wish your post to be understood by non-Jews....or anyone contemplating becoming a Noachide.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Since you are not in a Jewish forum, many readers may not be familiar with your terminology....so a brief explanation might be in order if you wish your post to be understood by non-Jews....or anyone contemplating becoming a Noachide.

Oh okay. In the further discussion we went through the definitions of a number of terms. I will create a bit of dictionary for the terms used that may not be familiar.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Here are some definitions.

Hashem – a term used to describe the Source of Creation/reality.

Mitzvoth – Commands given by Hashem.

Torah – a) written text of the five books of Moses, b) teachings from Hashem

Haalakha – Jewish law based on the Torah

Noach – Noah

Noachide – A non-Jewish person who keeps the 7 commands/laws that are given to Adam with an additional one given to Noah and his descendants.

I think I defined the other terms in some of my responses.

 

[YoursTrue]

First of all does this even apply to me if I don't live around Jews? Without them what meaning does it have?

By what method am I to know that these 7 mitzvas are meant for me and all humans?

Why are there 7? Why not six or eight?

Is there a difference between a regular Jew and a Geir Tzedeq? If so I was unaware of it until now.

Which world are they incumbent upon? Am I in it? How do I know which world you speak of? Is there only one?

What is the world to come? What are you talking about?

Good questions. Why 7 and not 8 or more or less.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here are some definitions.

Hashem – a term used to describe the Source of Creation/reality.

Mitzvoth – Commands given by Hashem.

Torah – a) written text of the five books of Moses, b) teachings from Hashem

Haalakha – Jewish law based on the Torah

Noach – Noah

Noachide – A non-Jewish person who keeps the 7 commands/laws that are given to Adam with an additional one given to Noah and his descendants.

I think I defined the other terms in some of my responses.

The way I understand the term HaShem is that it's a substitute for the name of God. It means, as I understand it, The Name. God's name in the form of what is called the tetragrammaton is in the holy scriptures thousands of times.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Good questions. Why 7 and not 8 or more or less.

Seven because they are the baseline. One of them is that the non-Jewish nations must create laws of justice of their own. This means at the end of the day there will be more than 7. Yet, the seven are the basis of it all.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The way I understand the term HaShem is that it's a substitute for the name of God. It means, as I understand it, The Name. God's name in the form of what is called the tetragrammaton is in the holy scriptures thousands of times.

You could say that "god" is a substitute since it never shows up once in the original text. There are even some who say that origin of the word "god" is from a pagan deity out of Europe. But that is for another conversation.

Hashem does show up in the Hebrew text of the Torah. Also, it is important to note that the word (שם) doesn't mean the same as the word "name" in English. It's meaning is beyond a pronnciation. The Torah contains a lot of titles/appalations of the Source of creation which details various aspects of what we perceive as charecteristics of the Source. I.e. what we receive fromo our experience.

 

[Rival]

Good questions. Why 7 and not 8 or more or less.

There are in fact much more than 7 as we can see from @Tumah's thread here Jewish Noahidism.

For example, 'No stealing/theft' also includes kidnap.

 

[rosends]

It recently struck me that choosing to be a Noachide is substantially harder than being Jewish. A Noachide has to start by subscribing to a faith that he or she chooses not to be part of, but acknowledges that it is right and persuasive. That's tougher (IMHO) than just accepting and being part of that system.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

It recently struck me that choosing to be a Noachide is substantially harder than being Jewish. A Noachide has to start by subscribing to a faith that he or she chooses not to be part of, but acknowledges that it is right and persuasive. That's tougher (IMHO) than just accepting and being part of that system.

Most of the Noachides I have met had the harder time with trying to break away from concepts the had received from their situation before becoming Noachides. Also, if they are not receiving help from a nearby Jewish community they often face isolation challenges. Most of the ones who became Noachides along with their families have an easier time. I.e. the support aspect seems to be more of a challenge than anything else.

In line with what you stated, as Jews we already have a community in place that we come from. The main similarity may be to a Ba'al Teshuva who has no family who keeps Torah.

 

[YoursTrue]

It recently struck me that choosing to be a Noachide is substantially harder than being Jewish. A Noachide has to start by subscribing to a faith that he or she chooses not to be part of, but acknowledges that it is right and persuasive. That's tougher (IMHO) than just accepting and being part of that system.

I'm chuckling here. Because in part what you're saying is true.

 

[YoursTrue]

Most of the Noachides I have met had the harder time with trying to break away from concepts the had received from their situation before becoming Noachides. Also, if they are not receiving help from a nearby Jewish community they often face isolation challenges. Most of the ones who became Noachides along with their families have an easier time. I.e. the support aspect seems to be more of a challenge than anything else.

In line with what you stated, as Jews we already have a community in place that we come from. The main similarity may be to a Ba'al Teshuva who has no family who keeps Torah.

In some communities, as you likely are aware of in the United States, there are chabad missionaries, and as I understand it, they are looking for Jews to join them in their worship. Not non-Jews. Some Jews accept the invitation, and most do not.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are in fact much more than 7 as we can see from @Tumah's thread here Jewish Noahidism.

For example, 'No stealing/theft' also includes kidnap.

As Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Russian author, wrote about justice and conscience --
Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity. Those who clearly recognize the voice of their own conscience usually recognize also the voice of justice.

 

[YoursTrue]

It recently struck me that choosing to be a Noachide is substantially harder than being Jewish. A Noachide has to start by subscribing to a faith that he or she chooses not to be part of, but acknowledges that it is right and persuasive. That's tougher (IMHO) than just accepting and being part of that system.

What I am reading from Exodus is that non-Israelites came along with the Israelites escaping from Egypt. And these, too, were under the Law given by Moses. It says, "If a foreigner resides with you and he wants to celebrate the Passover to Jehovah, every male of his must be circumcised. Then he may come near to celebrate it, and he will become like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. 49 One law will apply for the native and for the foreigner who is residing among you.” One law. Exodus. One God. Not two different or similar sounding laws. Exodus 12.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

In some communities, as you likely are aware of in the United States, there are chabad missionaries, and as I understand it, they are looking for Jews to join them in their worship. Not non-Jews. Some Jews accept the invitation, and most do not.

Actually, what you stated is not what Chabad is trying to do. You may have "misunderstood" what they are trying to do. Further, Chabad has also been trying to convince non-Jews to keep the Noachide laws because as we all know non-Jews are not required by the Torah to become Jews.

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually, what you stated is not what Chabad is trying to do. You may have "misunderstood" what they are trying to do. Further, Chabad has also been trying to convince non-Jews to keep the Noachide laws because as we all know non-Jews are not required by the Torah to become Jews.

Ok so what is the outreach to Jews from chabad about if not to make them more observant as Jews? As I said, few respond positively to the call from chabad so what does that mean? You keep talking as if the Sanhedrin is still in effect for Jews (ALL Jews). And non Jews who claim to be noahides? The Sanhedrin for them?Sacrifices? Law? Penalty? I GUESS what you are saying is that Noah and his family alone followed the laws before God gave the very intricate laws, hundreds of them, to Israel. And everyone outside the ark drowned by God's decree. Eight persons in the ark survived. The rest of the world's population was destroyed at God's decree.

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually, what you stated is not what Chabad is trying to do. You may have "misunderstood" what they are trying to do. Further, Chabad has also been trying to convince non-Jews to keep the Noachide laws because as we all know non-Jews are not required by the Torah to become Jews.

if non Israelites wanted to live in Israel they had to be peaceable. But those that left Egypt with the Jews had to be circumcized. Exodus 12:38,39 - "If a foreigner resides with you and he wants to celebrate the Passover to Jehovah, every male of his must be circumcised. Then he may come near to celebrate it, and he will become like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised man may eat of it. 49 One law will apply for the native and for the foreigner who is residing among you.” One law. In order to celebrate the Passover they had to be circumcized.

 

[YoursTrue]

Most of the Noachides I have met had the harder time with trying to break away from concepts the had received from their situation before becoming Noachides. Also, if they are not receiving help from a nearby Jewish community they often face isolation challenges. Most of the ones who became Noachides along with their families have an easier time. I.e. the support aspect seems to be more of a challenge than anything else.

In line with what you stated, as Jews we already have a community in place that we come from. The main similarity may be to a Ba'al Teshuva who has no family who keeps Torah.

Now about the courts or Sanhedrin. How do they apply to Jews and non Jews or...Noahides?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Ok so what is the outreach to Jews from chabad about if not to make them more observant as Jews? As I said, few respond positively to the call from chabad so what does that mean?

There are about 5 mitzvoth from the written Torah that require Jews to a) teach Torah to children, b) help correct fellow Jews who have made mistakes or don't keep the Torah, and c) try to return those Jews who have been kidnapped from among the Jewish people. (Whether literally or figuratively). As as I mentioned before, any Jew can opt out of the Jewish Torah based nation. Whether literally or figuratively, but irregardless there are mitzvoth to try to help those Jews who are outside of the Torah either by choice or because they were forced out by parents or other non-Torah based factors.

Chabad is one of SEVERAL Jewish organizations who seek to do these 5 mitzvoth that Hashem gave to the Torah based Jewish nation. I.e. they are not missionizing to a Jew to change into something not Jewish. They are instead trying to convince any Jew that is not keeping Torah to return to the path of their Jewish ancestors. If someone doesn't want to return to the path of their ancestors in the current situation, it is the hope of every Torah based Jew that they will do it at some point in the future.

You keep talking as if the Sanhedrin is still in effect for Jews (ALL Jews). And non Jews who claim to be noahides? The Sanhedrin for them?Sacrifices? Law? Penalty?

The halakhic rulings of the Sanhedrins from Mosheh to the last one over 1900 years ago still stand for all Torah based Jews, when they can be accomplished. BTW there were numerous smaller courts bellow the Sanhedrin in the land of Israel. A Jew can reject the Sanhedrin, just like they reject Hashem. The result is still the same since Hashem gave the mitzvoth to create a Sanhedrin in the land of Israel. The rulings of the Sanhedrin are applicable to Jews and Geir Toshavs living in the land of Israel. The Sanhedrin does not make rulings for Noachides living outside of the land of Israel. The Noachides living outside of the land of Israel are supposed to manage their own judicial systems based on the 7 mitzvoth.

The best way of understanding what a Sanhedrin is, it is like a Supreme Court for the Torah. Similar to have you have a Supreme Court in America.

I GUESS what you are saying is that Noah and his family alone followed the laws before God gave the very intricate laws, hundreds of them, to Israel. And everyone outside the ark drowned by God's decree. Eight persons in the ark survived. The rest of the world's population was destroyed at God's decree.

I am saying that all humans are created with the baseline being the 6 mitzvoth. That started from Adam and Hawah. The 7th mitzvah was received by "humanity" during the time that Noach and his family left the ark. Post Mount Sinai, non-Jews can know about the the 7 mitzvoth by way of the Torah that was received from Mount Sinai.

During the time, before the flood outside of Noach and his family humanity had gotten to a point where they were breaking most if not all of the 7 mitzvoth. They were doing so to the point that they were influincing animals and plants. According to Jewish sources Noach, while building the ark, spent about 120 years trying to inform people about the mistakes they were making. They didn't listen until the boat had taken off, so to speak.