In Praise of Illegal Immigrants

[Audie]

Did I not mention "courts"?

Thanks for your opinion, but if it looks like it's a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck.

People tend to have priorities, and these priorities tend to differ from person to person. I tend to think that having compassion towards others should be a high priority within any society, especially within Buddhism since it's a basic teaching within dharma [see my last post]. If I say I'm a Christian but support terrorism, wouldn't you question my commitment to what I say I am?

Anyhow, have a nice day.
.

Audie says-
invidious cant, unworthy of the lowest political hack.

QUOTE="metis,
looks like it's a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck.

Yup. And you dont lift yourself by speaking ill of others.
QUOTE="metis
having compassion towards others

And yet more cant, suggesting that those who
disagree with you on certain points are without
those qualities.

Compassion?
How much of what kind toward whom and why
are always considerations. True of you, me, and the
man behind the tree. I doubt you seat all the homeless
you can find at your table every day.

QUOTE="metis
,wouldn't you question my commitment to what I say I am?

Might. Depends.
Table, bed, food, clothing, bank account vs
street addicts in need of compassion?

 

[TheresOnlyNow]

It was inevitable that pro-law breaker argument would appear sooner or later.
There are laws regarding the privilege of entering America. There are also laws prosecuting those who do not abide by those laws.
An undocumented illegal alien is the latter. The court doesn't have to say this, the law says this of those who do not comply with the laws concerning lawful entry into America.
Entry into America is a privilege. Not a right.

FAIR :
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers

Report by Matt O'Brien and Spencer Raley | September 27, 2017


CRIME RESEARCH:
NEW RESEARCH: The impact of illegal aliens on crime rates, data codebook and “do file”
17 Jan , 2018

Those who defend illegal activity due to the perpetrators being foreigners should walk their talk.
Go to the border and pick up the latest illegal that snuck across. Bring them to your home. Give them a spare key to your front door and show them to their bedroom. Give them a copy of your bank ATM card and PIN number. Give them spare keys to your car.
Take on a second job so you can support them during their indeterminate stay at your home. Put them on your insurance and add them to your will.

YOU DO what you think all American's should have to do as you argue we should make an exception for a particular set of criminals. All because they're foreigners.

And the refugee status simply doesn't work. International law and the definition of "refugee"precludes illegal aliens from entering the USA through our southern border.
They're suppose to seek refuge in the country closest to their own conflict laden country. Not trek hundreds of miles north to seek refuge solely in America.
That they do this and claim to be refugees means their breaking the law. Again.

Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a carjacker a member of the car pool.

Stop defending illegal activity as humanitarian.

 

[columbus]

I suspect even Democrats have figured out that socialism doesn't work. At least not without capitalism to support it.

Rather like capitalism doesn't work, without socialism to prop it up.
The mid 19th century comes to mind. The Great Depression, and all that.
Tom

 

[metis]

Audie says-
invidious cant, unworthy of the lowest political hack.

QUOTE="metis,
looks like it's a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, maybe it's a duck.

Yup. And you dont lift yourself by speaking ill of others.
QUOTE="metis
having compassion towards others

And yet more cant, suggesting that those who
disagree with you on certain points are without
those qualities.

Compassion?
How much of what kind toward whom and why
are always considerations. True of you, me, and the
man behind the tree. I doubt you seat all the homeless
you can find at your table every day.

QUOTE="metis
,wouldn't you question my commitment to what I say I am?

Might. Depends.
Table, bed, food, clothing, bank account vs
street addicts in need of compassion?

The above is simply nonsense, plus you seemingly forget that this website is called "Religious Forums", therefore the nature of at least some of my questioning. Maybe you're in the wrong place here?

Anyhow, it appears you really don't have much of anything to add except sniping, so I'm just going to move on.

 

[Audie]

The above is simply nonsense, plus you seemingly forget that this website is called "Religious Forums", therefore the nature of at least some of my questioning. Maybe you're in the wrong place here?

Anyhow, it appears you really don't have much of anything to add except sniping, so I'm just going to move on.

Right. Toss out a stink bomb as you retreat.

 

[Salvador]

Migrant deaths along the Mexico–United States border - Wikipedia

There's a moral obligation to erect a steel slated border security barrier, in order to end the 200 to 300 migrant deaths each year that happen while there are migrants trying to cross into the United States from Mexico; if there were a wall, these migrants would give up trying to go across the border, consequently, these people would stay put and not risk their lives coming to America.

President Trump tweets his love for Hispanics, maybe it's time for a steel slated border security barrier that shows our entire nation does indeed care for the lives of Hispanics by keeping them stay put in Mexico by a wall rather than having them risk their lives getting lost without provisions in the open desert wilderness near the U.S.-Mexico border.

If Congress fails to fund an effective border security barrier system in order to end this humanitarian crises, then President Trump has no choice but to declare a national state of emergency in order to direct funds from the U.S. military that could then provide the needed appropriations for an effective border security barrier system which would finally put an end to this humanitarian crisis on the U.S.-Mexico border.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That is not true as American law makes a possible exception when dealing with refugees, which also reflects international law.

Fortunately, the world also relies on having basic compassion for others in need, which is sorely lacking in some people, including Trump. Even a Trump defender like Rick Santorum admits that Trump lack an "empathy gene", as he calls it.

BTW, have you ever actually studied dharma because there's a sharp disconnect with what you claim you are versus what dharma actually teaches, namely to have compassion for all sentient beings?

What makes them refugees? I don't see any major wars going on down in Honduras, Guatemala, and Ecuador. It's funny how people forget that Mexico offered to take them all in. Have people forgotten how to protect their Homeland and try to defend their way of life? It's actually better to run away and illegally enter into somebody else's Homeland?

That's where compassion comes in. Compassion doesn't always look pretty or nice and pristine, and pleasant to the eye.

Sometimes it's ugly and unpleasant for which it will be much more compassionate to train these people to forcefully take back their country from those that are causing them to flee in the first place. To teach them to stand their ground and and fight back. To be proud of their Homeland in the things that they build as a society and unique culture .

It also makes me wonder why none of these countries are being brought to the table and questioned as to what's going on down there that's causing their people to leave in droves and why they are not doing anything about it.

Compassion is a superfluous term. One of the other posters here on RF put it very nicely from another thread , (I wish I could remember but I don't) is why don't you open your own doors to a couple dozen of "immigrants" who will just climb through the windows of your house, boldly sit down on your couch, eat your food from the refrigerator , and watch your TV without asking for your permission solely on the basis that they didn't like the last place they lived in.

I wonder if you would call the police and have them removed and taken away to be sent back where they come from, as long as they are out of your house?

This is essentially what Trump is doing.
Unlike the choice Democrats who have become a do nothing, status quo , business as usual , self-serving party that openly panders to foreign illegals more than the duty to protect one's own citizens.

 

[Audie]

What makes them refugees? I don't see any major wars going on down in Honduras, Guatemala, and Ecuador. It's funny how people forget that Mexico offered to take them all in. Have people forgotten how to protect their Homeland and try to defend their way of life? It's actually better to run away and illegally enter into somebody else's Homeland?

That's where compassion comes in. Compassion doesn't always look pretty or nice and pristine, and pleasant to the eye.

Sometimes it's ugly and unpleasant for which it will be much more compassionate to train these people to forcefully take back their country from those that are causing them to flee in the first place. To teach them to stand their ground and and fight back. To be proud of their Homeland in the things that they build as a society and unique culture .

It also makes me wonder why none of these countries are being brought to the table and questioned as to what's going on down there that's causing their people to leave in droves and why they are not doing anything about it.

Compassion is a superfluous term. One of the other posters here on RF put it very nicely from another thread , (I wish I could remember but I don't) is why don't you open your own doors to a couple dozen of "immigrants" who will just climb through the windows of your house, boldly sit down on your couch, eat your food from the refrigerator , and watch your TV without asking for your permission solely on the basis that they didn't like the last place they lived in.

I wonder if you would call the police and have them removed and taken away to be sent back where they come from, as long as they are out of your house?

This is essentially what Trump is doing.
Unlike the choice Democrats who have become a do nothing, status quo , business as usual , self-serving party that openly panders to foreign illegals more than the duty to protect one's own citizens.

If compassion for the least among us is the actual
topic it might be well to recruit refugees from
seriously unfortunate places like Bangaladesh
Or no, here are the 6 poorest..
None of the central american countires even make it
into the bottom 30.

1. Central African Republic — GDP per capita: $656 (£535)
2. Democratic Republic of Congo — GDP per capita: $784 (£639) ...
3. Burundi — GDP per capita: $818 (£667) ...
4. Liberia — GDP per capita: $882 (£719) ...
5. Niger — GDP per capita: $1,113 (£907) ...
6. Malawi — GDP per capita: $1,139 (£929) ...

They of course cannot walk to the US border, so they
do not count.
https://en.centralamericadata.com/en/article/home/Household_Income_Up_10_in_El_Salvador

 

[fantome profane]

The fact that people are either unable or unwilling to acknowledge is that the U.S. economy has always been dependent on having an underclass that can be exploited. At one time it was slave labour, now it is illegal aliens.

Until you acknowledge this fact immigration reform will never work. It will not work because the people in power do not want it to work, regardless of how much noise they make to the contrary. Build a wall, don’t build a wall, it makes no difference. You will always have illegal aliens because you are addicted to cheap labour.

 

[Audie]

The fact that people are either unable or unwilling to acknowledge is that the U.S. economy has always been dependent on having an underclass that can be exploited. At one time it was slave labour, now it is illegal aliens.

Until you acknowledge this fact immigration reform will never work. It will not work because the people in power do not want it to work, regardless of how much noise they make to the contrary. Build a wall, don’t build a wall, it makes no difference. You will always have illegal aliens because you are addicted to cheap labour.

When you say "dependent" you are implying "essential".
It is not now, never was.
"Acknowledging" facts that are not facts is a bad call.

In the event, it is also bad economics.

 

[fantome profane]

When you say "dependent" you are implying "essential".
It is not now, never was.
"Acknowledging" facts that are not facts is a bad call.

In the event, it is also bad economics.

I did not say, nor did I intend to imply “essential”. I said dependent. Whether or not this is a dependency that can be broken remains to be seen.

But a great and wise man once said, you can’t change something if you don’t acknowledge it.

But notice in all the discussion around immigration that is going on. No one is talking about what the U.S. will do if the flow of illegal immigrants is suddenly shut off, how that will effect the economy, industry, lifestyle. And the reason no one is talking about that is because when it comes right down to it no one really expects it will happen.

 

[Nakosis]

The libertarian perspective on immigration is often regarded as one of the core concepts of libertarian theory and philosophy. Some libertarians assert that "efforts by the government to manage the labor market are as apt to fail as similar efforts to protect domestic industries or orchestrate industrial policy. If an immigrant seeks to engage in peaceful, voluntary transactions that do not threaten the freedom or security of the native-born, the government should not interfere"

This is a huge debate among people who otherwise swear fealty to "limited government." Many people who claim to want freedom seem to have no problem with the implications of a closed-border policy: national IDs, national work permits, non-stop surveillance, harassment of all businesses, a "papers please" culture, mass deportation, tens of billions in waste, bureaucrats wrecking the American dream, broken families, [and] the rights of Americans and foreigners transgressed at every turn.
Libertarian perspectives on immigration - Wikipedia

So Libertarians ought to be among the open border crowd.

 

[Audie]

I did not say, nor did I intend to imply “essential”. I said dependent. Whether or not this is a dependency that can be broken remains to be seen.

But a great and wise man once said, you can’t change something if you don’t acknowledge it.

But notice in all the discussion around immigration that is going on. No one is talking about what the U.S. will do if the flow of illegal immigrants is suddenly shut off, how that will effect the economy, industry, lifestyle. And the reason no one is talking about that is because when it comes right down to it no one really expects it will happen.

Ok, it was not your intent, tho "dependent"
as per webster is, about a half step below
essential. But never mind.

I have seen studies and projections of current
role, future needs, etc, re the illegals. Not an
easy topic.

I wont offer to pronounce how many of who is
or is not talking about their role, or why they are or
are not talking.

It does tho seem that this social problem, like
homelessness, drugs, etc and so on is pretty
exactly at the level the country is willing to tolerate.

 

[fantome profane]

It does tho seem that this social problem, like
homelessness, drugs, etc and so on is pretty
exactly at the level the country is willing to tolerate.

That is pretty much my point.

 

[Audie]

That is pretty much my point.

Rats.

Who can I argue with.

 

[Revoltingest]

The libertarian perspective on immigration is often regarded as one of the core concepts of libertarian theory and philosophy. Some libertarians assert that "efforts by the government to manage the labor market are as apt to fail as similar efforts to protect domestic industries or orchestrate industrial policy. If an immigrant seeks to engage in peaceful, voluntary transactions that do not threaten the freedom or security of the native-born, the government should not interfere"

This is a huge debate among people who otherwise swear fealty to "limited government." Many people who claim to want freedom seem to have no problem with the implications of a closed-border policy: national IDs, national work permits, non-stop surveillance, harassment of all businesses, a "papers please" culture, mass deportation, tens of billions in waste, bureaucrats wrecking the American dream, broken families, [and] the rights of Americans and foreigners transgressed at every turn.
Libertarian perspectives on immigration - Wikipedia

So Libertarians ought to be among the open border crowd.

Of course, our situation is complicated. We live in a country dominated by liberals
& conservatives, not libertarians. So we have a system wherein taxpayers are
forced to support the unproductive.. Immigrants who come here in need will increase
that burden. So perhaps a compromise between open & closed borders will be the
best result...one emphasizing the immigrant's contribution more.

 

[fantome profane]

taxpayers are
forced to support the unproductive.. Immigrants

Here I need to mention that the average immigrant is more productive than the average native born American. Really they are supporting you.

 

[Shad]

The fact that people are either unable or unwilling to acknowledge is that the U.S. economy has always been dependent on having an underclass that can be exploited. At one time it was slave labour, now it is illegal aliens.

Dems supported both... See a pattern here?

 

[fantome profane]

Dems supported both... See a pattern here?

What I see is that people are more invested in finding someone to blame them in finding a solution.

 

[Shad]

What I see is that people are more invested in finding someone to blame them in finding a solution.

I didn't blame anyone. I pointed out a pattern of Dems supporting an underclass as a necessary. The GOP is just as bad. It blew it's chance during Trump's first 2 years. All they needed to do was flip Flake to fully control all three branches of government. The GOP failed big time while demonstrating internal divisions are far more damage to the GOP than Dems.