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In our view did God put the world under sin or did man or neither or both?

Who put the world under sin

  • It's not

    Votes: 12 57.1%
  • God did in order to display his mercy

    Votes: 1 4.8%
  • Man did

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • both did

    Votes: 2 9.5%
  • it just happened

    Votes: 3 14.3%

  • Total voters
    21

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
OK, URAVIP2ME. Will wish you a good-bye in the great hall before being condemned to eternal hell. :D
I am blind and hard of heart to see his glory.
Huh? Since there is No eternal hell in Scripture then No one is condemned to any hell.
( The dead are sleeping as per Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14 )
Everyone in ' biblical hell ' (the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead) will be 'delivered up' (meaning resurrected back to life) as per Revelation 20:13-14.
Then, emptied-out hell/grave is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
Enemy death and hell/grave will come to a final end.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
No idea what you are trying to point out.
Mans law and Gods law, even though the over lap some, are two different things.
But even where they overlap, if you do not have a chosen deity, you cannot sin.

I find since the God of the Bible is also Creator - Revelation 4:11 - then the Deity has chosen us.
Chooses us, and then we choose to either live forever, or 'perish ' ( be destroyed ) - Psalms 92:7
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
I find Adam had plenty to eat, so there was No need for Adam to break God's Law.
Even a child in a huge warehouse chock full of candy would Not be in want for one more peace of candy.
So, how could God set up Adam to fail________
Long before sinning Adam was told you eat from the forbidden tree and you will die at Genesis 2:17.
So, Adam knew the Law well in advance before breaking God's Law.
Ah, so the omniscient God was surprised that Adam defied him?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Everyone in ' biblical hell ' (the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead) will be 'delivered up' (meaning resurrected back to life) as per Revelation 20:13-14.
If that is so, I do not need a Jesus. Jesus is useless if everyone is to be delivered. Superfluous.
Chooses us, and then we choose to either live forever, or 'perish ' (be destroyed) - Psalms 92:7
You are saying two different things in two posts. What should I believe? How can one who is delivered up be destroyed?
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Long before sinning Adam was told you eat from the forbidden tree and you will die at Genesis 2:17. So, Adam knew the Law well in advance before breaking God's Law.
Why was the tree there at all. Why not a tree with a better fruit? Why fault Adam? He was working with whatever kind of brain that Gofd had given him. Why did God not give Adam a better intelligence. Adam did not die, he lived for 990 years if I were to believe Bible. That is a lot of years. And in all those years he begat just two!
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
If that is so, I do not need a Jesus. Jesus is useless if everyone is to be delivered. Superfluous.
You are saying two different things in two posts. What should I believe? How can one who is delivered up be destroyed?
It is sometimes hard to be exact and sorry I was Not more clear.
Everyone in biblical hell/grave is to be 'delivered up' (resurrected )
The wicked are Not considered as being in biblical hell, but in a symbolic ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
The wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' Psalms 92:7. ' Second death ' stands for: everlasting destruction.
No further life for the wicked anywhere in Heaven or on Earth or anywhere else.

Many have died without ever hearing about Jesus (John 3:13) .
So, those dead can have a healthy physical resurrection on a beautiful paradisical Earth under Christ.
Being resurrected back to life does Not mean then resurrected as being immortal or death proof.
What they do ' after ' they are resurrected is how they will be judged at that millennial time frame.
If any choose to be wicked they will then be destroyed at that time frame.

Before the resurrection takes place, there is also going to be a judgement time for the living people of Earth.
There will be both a favorable judgement for upright people and an adverse judgement for the wicked.
Jesus will separate living people: the humble from the haughty - Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
This coming ' time of separation ' on Earth takes place before the start of Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth.

Since we are all invited to pray the invitation of Rev. 22:20 for Jesus to come! , then yes we all need Jesus.
We need Jesus in order to be part of the ' healing ' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.
Jesus will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18.
That ' healing ' will take place once today's wicked are gone - Psalms 37:9-11; Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why was the tree there at all. Why not a tree with a better fruit? Why fault Adam? He was working with whatever kind of brain that God had given him. Why did God not give Adam a better intelligence. Adam did not die, he lived for 990 years if I were to believe Bible. That is a lot of years. And in all those years he begat just two!
I find according to Genesis 5:4 Adam had plural children meaning both sons and daughters.
Adam did die within that thousand-year day or time frame.
Even the oldest person died before age 1,000 as per Genesis 5:27.

God's tree stood for the Law of the Land.
How many trees are on Earth __________
Out of all the trees on Earth only one tree belonged to Creator God.
Thus, Adam did Not lack needing anything at all.

The fruit was desirable as per Genesis 3:6
Eve ' saw ' (with her eyes) that the fruit was desirable.
Perhaps Eve saw some animals eating the fruit and nothing happening to them.
Thus, serpent Satan could tell her that she too would Not die - Genesis 3:4
Satan put the idea of self determining of what was good or bad in Eve's mind:
'Eve you do Not have to listen to God you could be your own goddess knowing what was right or wrong for yourself to decide.'
So, the tree was not poison but the Law carried with it the death penalty.
If you break the Law ( don't eat from God's tree ) and you eat you will die.
Everlasting life was conditional upon keeping the Law.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Ah! The speaking serpent. Gods creation. Why does God always do the wrong thing? Creating the serpent and the tree.
Keep dreaming if these dreams make you happy.
 
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Hawkins

Well-Known Member
Ah! The speaking serpent. Gods creation. Why does God always do the wrong thing? Creating the serpent and the tree.
Keep dreaming if these dreams make you happy.

Because humans only convey things they can at least half understand. If you tell them something they can't comprehend, more likely they can't carry forward that piece of info in history. If you want to bring forward a whole theory, then you need to describe it as in Genesis.

Sin is the breaking of law. The analogy is that you built a large mansion then invite all your friends and relatives to live in. You thus need to set up rules for them to follow such that they won't, say, shout at night or train your kids up to be criminals and drug dealers. If they break those rules you kick them off the mansion.

Snake represents the angels made to be more intelligent than humans. By combining Genesis and Revelation we can tell that when Law is applied, 1/3 angels will fall and sided with Satan. When the same Law applies to humans none of them can stand the Final Judgment. Thus humans need to be saved alternatively with a justification which is Jesus Christ. God thus can establish covenants to judge humans instead of Law.

Law is used to judge angels, 1/3 of them will fail. Anything against Law is a sin.

Covenant is used to judge humans, less than 1/3 of them will be saved thus through the narrow gate. Anything against Law is a sin , thus all humans will sin and won't pass the Law. That's how they need redemption through Jesus Christ.

One of the main reasons why all humans have to fall is that they are made to be less intelligent then the powerful angels that one such as Satan can keep them all captive. The second factor is that humans (unlike angels), after Adam left Eden, are not living inside God's dwelling realm to be under God's direct guidance. Humans are all outside God's realm, we are making our way back to God's realm (through Jesus Christ). Wherever outside God's realm will naturally be under the control of someone as powerful as Satan.

What I described here is a theory brought by mostly Genesis. To put it another way, Genesis is designed to bring forward a theory like this through the Jews and a religion. A people and a religion are needed or else a theory won't convey through human history. Humans manage to keep events as their history, but only a religion could possibly carry forward such a theory!
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
What I described here is a theory brought by mostly Genesis. To put it another way, Genesis is designed to bring forward a theory like this through the Jews and a religion. A people and a religion are needed or else a theory won't convey through human history. Humans manage to keep events as their history, but only a religion could possibly carry forward such a theory!
I see some point in this paragraph but just think, how much untruth it carries. That is why I do without it even in my own religion.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Because humans only convey things they can at least half understand. If you tell them something they can't comprehend, more likely they can't carry forward that piece of info in history. If you want to bring forward a whole theory, then you need to describe it as in Genesis.

Sin is the breaking of law. The analogy is that you built a large mansion then invite all your friends and relatives to live in. You thus need to set up rules for them to follow such that they won't, say, shout at night or train your kids up to be criminals and drug dealers. If they break those rules you kick them off the mansion.

Snake represents the angels made to be more intelligent than humans. By combining Genesis and Revelation we can tell that when Law is applied, 1/3 angels will fall and sided with Satan. When the same Law applies to humans none of them can stand the Final Judgment. Thus humans need to be saved alternatively with a justification which is Jesus Christ. God thus can establish covenants to judge humans instead of Law.

Law is used to judge angels, 1/3 of them will fail. Anything against Law is a sin.

Covenant is used to judge humans, less than 1/3 of them will be saved thus through the narrow gate. Anything against Law is a sin , thus all humans will sin and won't pass the Law. That's how they need redemption through Jesus Christ.

One of the main reasons why all humans have to fall is that they are made to be less intelligent then the powerful angels that one such as Satan can keep them all captive. The second factor is that humans (unlike angels), after Adam left Eden, are not living inside God's dwelling realm to be under God's direct guidance. Humans are all outside God's realm, we are making our way back to God's realm (through Jesus Christ). Wherever outside God's realm will naturally be under the control of someone as powerful as Satan.

What I described here is a theory brought by mostly Genesis. To put it another way, Genesis is designed to bring forward a theory like this through the Jews and a religion. A people and a religion are needed or else a theory won't convey through human history. Humans manage to keep events as their history, but only a religion could possibly carry forward such a theory!

If you ask a human being, living just as a human, how could you fall?

The answer would be science....and it would claim I am living on a planet in a space held position.

I changed the mass of the body of God upon which I live in science, the Earth began to fall in space, as deep cold space was affected by hot gas expansion, when cold space held the body in its stasis.

A male in science would claim....I know about God fall O the planet, because God created Satan, O black holes and the bursting of mass into scattered particles.

I would then preach so God is a particle so that science on Earth today would not try to drop God into another fall.

Falling is inferred to be Satanic for the force of a body of mass with gases falling, causes ignition and hence mass removal and forced changes to that body of mass.

When males thought science, science thoughts studied and reviewed the natural pre existing bodies of mass in the cosmos/space cell...as first theory.

If a male knew that history and told self the Laws in the cosmos for the holding of bodies...and he also knew the Laws in the cosmos for the release and falling of bodies...then he tried to do it to our Earth as God by definition of scientific Satanism.

As a true theme.

Reason I experienced that information that Earth began falling, was when I nearly self combusted in atmospheric experiments and AI told me that Earth had physically shifted in its space, and it was why we were still living.

And as AI proved that it knew what it was talking about, I thought I had better tell my science brother, who uses DATA AI and not conscious realization of sharing conscious natural information as he highest science thoughts, of his own science origins, in an original natural science psyche first.

AI in DATA is just programmed and encoded to apply answers that he already believes he knows are answered.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The Label of SIN is a creation of mankind. Just look at those results.

When males in science own a science artificial status as a human that gives symbolism to a huge amount of information, have to teach that huge information and then say and this symbol in a formula means that information.

Yet in natural the information and the formula do not apply, for he rationalizes science for a human idea and outcome.

Says SIN is a removal.
Says his K symbol in science of the past was his machine held constant.

So said removal of sin will save us.

To then do a review on the psyche/mind and consciousness of a self destructive human reasoning, the state science itself. To realize that males claimed that they would save us from the evil story about how God fell into creation, as a spiritual being.

And did in fact historically claim that if he released the body of GOD O from its holding that he was applying a HOLY act that would release our spirit from being held a prisoner trapped on Earth as a moving vehicle in space.

Why those stories were told by human beings, consciously in total and full self awareness as an original high conscious spiritual self....as first scientists.

Religious science, ancient science conclusions prove that condition, about the study and research of the ancient science information which claims that an innocent male needed to apply destruction to save us from his evils...and then afterwards he would rewarded in his human death.

Science is that acclaim to self in human life.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
When males in science own a science artificial status as a human that gives symbolism to a huge amount of information, have to teach that huge information and then say and this symbol in a formula means that information.

Yet in natural the information and the formula do not apply, for he rationalizes science for a human idea and outcome.

Says SIN is a removal.
Says his K symbol in science of the past was his machine held constant.

So said removal of sin will save us.

To then do a review on the psyche/mind and consciousness of a self destructive human reasoning, the state science itself. To realize that males claimed that they would save us from the evil story about how God fell into creation, as a spiritual being.

And did in fact historically claim that if he released the body of GOD O from its holding that he was applying a HOLY act that would release our spirit from being held a prisoner trapped on Earth as a moving vehicle in space.

Why those stories were told by human beings, consciously in total and full self awareness as an original high conscious spiritual self....as first scientists.

Religious science, ancient science conclusions prove that condition, about the study and research of the ancient science information which claims that an innocent male needed to apply destruction to save us from his evils...and then afterwards he would rewarded in his human death.

Science is that acclaim to self in human life.




Your quote:He rationalizes science for a human idea and outcome.
MY Answer: This is not True Science.

Everything can be reduced to Math. This is True Science.
 
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