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In God's Image...

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Hirohito18200, May 5, 2004.

  1. inca

    inca Active Member

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    As I said before, the plural use in Genesis makes us understand the image and resamblance of men was based upon THEM and not the spiritual invisible Almighty. It doesn't eliminate after all some spiritual qualities were inserted into human beings.
     
  2. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I think one of the unique attributes from the very beginning of this "religion" was the idea of monotheism -- the belief of a single god. Therefor I can only see the writers using the majestic plural. I believe the "majestic plural" has been documented in the Tell el Amarna
    letters from Canaanite princes, who address Pharaoh as "my gods" or
    something to that effect. I also recall some Phoenician inscriptions using
    the "Majestic plural" as well. Some biblical scholars have concluded that
    the "majestic plural" (Elohim) is an ancient well established form of
    address dating from Late Bronze Age times.
     
  3. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Majestic plural gotta be used in the proper context and the use of singular or plural VERB. That's why we can't translate "in the beginning the gods created..." In Genesis we could use that majestic plural in "elohim" or "adonai" (lord) as "adonim". Yet the texts in Genesis 1:26; 2:22 and 11:7 are definitely simple plural. In fact Jewish account is the version already detailed in Sumerian accounts where the plural gods had number and the creation of the Adamus or Adapas was done in sucesive genetic experiences described with whole lotta detail.
    www.sitchin.com/adam.htm
    www.sitchin.com/images/adam1.jpg
    www.sitchin.com/primate.htm
    www.sitchin.com/genetics.htm
    Last part of this site:
    www.sitchin.com
    www.s8int.com/adamsrib.html
    www.s8int.com/boneyard1.html
    www.s8int.com/dna1.html
    www.s8int.com/giants1.html
    The last two links do have several pages to follow.
     
  4. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Isaiah 44:24 says the LORD created the heavens alone and created the earth by Himself (Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself)

    There was only one Creator according to Malachi 2:10 (Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers)

    Since Genesis 1:26 cannot mean two or more persons in the Godhead, what does it mean?

    On at least one occasion God talked to the angels and requested their opinions in formulating His plans (I Kings 22:19-22: And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ra'moth–gil'e-ad? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him)

    We do know that the angels were present at the creation (Job 38:4-7 where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest?
    Or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof; when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


    For those who do not know what majestic or literary plural is I'll tell you. In formal speaking and writing the speaker or writer often refers to himself in the plural, especially if the speaker is of royalty. Biblical examples of the majestic plural can be cited to illustrate this practice. For example, Daniel told King Nebuchadnezzar, "We will tell the interpretation thereof before the king" even though Daniel alone proceeded to give the interpretation to the king (Daniel 2:36). King Artaxerxes alternately referred to himself in the singular and the plural in his correspondence. Once, he wrote, "The letter which ye sent unto us hath been plainly read before me" (Ezra 4:18). In a letter to Ezra, Artaxerxes called himself "I" in one place (Ezra 7:13) but "we" in another place (7:24)

    I feel that the plural in 1:26 is only harmonized with the singular in 1:27 "So God created man in his own image" and 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man."

    You see the following verses shed light on 1:26 basicly..

    Also in response to Jewish accounts, the Jews have traditionally interpreted it to mean that God talked to the angels at creation. This does not imply that the angels actually took part in creation but that God informed them of his plans and solicited their comments out of courtesy and respect. Other commentators suggest that 1:26 simply describes God as he counseled with His own will with Ephesians 1:11 supporting this view saying God works all things "after the counsel of his own will" Similar to a man saying "Let's see" even when he is planning by himself.

    I however will remain to believe that its a majestic plural although Ephesians 1:11 interests me greatly.
     
  5. inca

    inca Active Member

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    I have explained when to use majestic plural and the difference between simple plural because of the use of verbs. Jews interpreted quite well there was a talking among other spiritual angels. Moses believed he was talking with God himself and we have this impression through the whole Old Testament but Acts 7:30, 35, 38 gives the detail it was certain kind of angel. This explains why in some texts God talks in the name of God. God is a word meaning "powerful" and it's applied even to Moses in Exodus 7:1, 2, false gods, human judges, etc. Zephaniah 3:4 and Ieremiah 8:8 recognize the Torah (5 first books of the Bible) was adultered by the lier feather of the priests, hence the people should take care in deposit too much faith in the medium -the Scripture- instead of the goal, God. In fact there's evidence Hebrew manuscripsts were based upon older Sumerian tablets even in details like the 7th day of rest, names like Adamu, the serpent, etc. We have to remember Moses compiled many ancient manuscripts that came to him via his father Amram. Yet many things were wrote before by a man whose language and culture was not Jewish. I'm talking about Abraham from Ur (Genesis 11:27-32). So, it's a must to read Sitchin's work and a bit more about Sumer before getting to the conclusion the Bible must be the only source to look upon. There are "colofons" or "epilogs" or "signatures" even in Genesis (5:1; 6:9) meaning Moses took information previously written.
    There's a difference between the Creation of Heavens and Earth in Hebrew. It's used the word "create" (barah) while regarding Adam & Eve it's used the verb "form" or "modelate" (1:26; 2:18,19,22). Create in Hebrew is do something out from nothing while "form" is to do something from what already exists. Even Genesis admits 2:7 admits the formation was with the help of clay or dust elements (inorganics or organics?). The Sumerian text gives all the missing details in Genesis. It was said the Biblical text was more "pure" because the reference to one God but in fact the reference to God talking in plural (and even Almighty consulting humans or showing envious or jealous attitude or even confirming Satan didn't lie) makes clear Almighty didn't create directly the human being. He just let other children of His realm do the task indirectly. God didn't create Doberman and Dolly sheep clone, yet the process of life depends on Him. So the Bible is not contradicting. Many interpretations come to the fact Christians ignore Hebrew key words and want to insert Trinitary dogma of many people in one entity to apply it everywhere.
     
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