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In God We Trust?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by steve at JRM, Feb 10, 2006.

  1. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

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    Who, Rome? Think they were.
     
  2. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    As we consider them now, yes. However, the term 'pagan' evolved when the Abrahamic faith became the 'civilized' one. 'Pagan' was originally meant 'country bumpkin', or something similar- denoting that the person who believed in such gods did so because they weren't civilized enough to be familiar with this up-and-coming faith.

    So, if we're referring to a time when the Romans considered their gods/ the Greek and Egyptian gods the only gods, they wouldn't have been called 'pagan' gods. They would have simply been known as The Gods.
     
  3. gnomon

    gnomon Well-Known Member

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    An irrelevant distinction in this context.
     
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  4. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    As you state your religion is 'Irrelevant', I thought you'd be pleased! (Just kidding, and not very well, I suspect.)

    I do apologize if it was irrelevant, however. I sometimes get frustrated when it seems as if my opinion is being ignored because I'm not a monotheist nor an atheist. The only semi- useful point I was trying to make was that the gods that some people now call pagan were once thought to be the only gods worth believing in to their worshippers, too.
     
  5. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    You may be joking, Mike, but that hardly counts as "proselytizing." :rolleyes:
     
  6. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    Well said.
     
  7. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    It depends on who is defining the term, Mark. In this case, I believe he was referring to RF's. In this case, RFs' rule 19, which mentions
     
  8. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    How does one go about converting someone online? Isn't it a choice for one to change beliefs?
     
  9. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    I honestly don't know, nor do I think it is related to the topic of this thread. I was simply pointing out what I believe Mike was referring to, that particular rule. The full rule states:

    One can share, discuss, and seek to understand others without attempting to convert them to or away from another religion. It is, indeed, a choice for a person to change their own beliefs. However, when one is coming to a forum for the purposes of education, debate and discussion, it is not their usually their choice to want to read posts that attempt to convert. Because we trust that there are enough forums out there that people can choose to go to, should they wish to read such posts, we hope to not have to deal with such posts here.

    On the seperate topic of whether or not it is possible to convert online, I believe it is. Should one wish to debate this subject, another thread can be opened to that effect.
     
  10. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I understood your meaning and agree only that those who believed in them did not know them to be pagan but for those that did not know and believe in them may have thought them strange and different. I really didn't and don't want to debate the meaning of the word "pagan" but I do believe that my point was well taken by most and was understood. We as a nation, or a people, shouldn't be so self centered to think that we are the only ones in history to experience good times. We here in the good ol' USA are only a couple of hundred years old where other nations are some what older. Look at China. What is the predominate religion there?
     
  11. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    Yes, once we had slaughtered the Native Americans and stolen their land, we did all right. Slaves kidnapped from Africa helped a lot also. More recently, we invaded Iraq for no legitimate reason, resulting in the death of thousands of people and the waste of billions of dollars which could have been spent for more constructive purposes.

    In God We Trust. With Hypocrisy, We Act. :eek:
     
  12. mormonman

    mormonman Ammon is awesome

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    As a conservitive, Romney doesn't believe in gay marrital rights, just like most other conservitives. There is no radical belief here.
     
  13. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    And apparently you don't believe in spell check. :biglaugh:
     
  14. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    This has nothing to do with conservative or liberal. It has to do with bigotry - and it is a shame that equal rights seems to be a radical idea to Christians.

    I'm sure you could deal with the content, right?
     
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  15. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    Well said! Frubals to you.
    I tend to judge a post not only by content, but also by the degree of literacy with which it is written. If MormOnman is so proud of being a conservative, he would do well to learn how to spell it correctly. ;)
     
  16. Darkdale

    Darkdale World Leader Pretend

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    True - but if we became real grammar nazis it would detract from the debates. :) And it is a good thing I can use spell check, because I spelled grammar incorrectly. :(
     
  17. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    And I spelled Mormonman incorrectly, and was unable to correct it before your lightning-fast reply. Pride cometh before a fall. :eek:
     
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  18. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    im not convinced that the way to measure the "greatness" of a country is to count how many christians there are in it - but i think this is a topic best left for another debate
     
  19. CaptainXeroid

    CaptainXeroid Following Christ

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    Most of the American Natives died of diseases the contracted from the European settlers. True, many were rounded up, under illegal orders from Andrew Jackson, but one people conquering another has been going on through history. It's nothing new, and no amount of self-loathing by today's people will undo it.
    If you do some reading, you will find that the slave trade started with rival African tribes trading prisoners of war for rum. I'm not defending the practice, but rather pointing out that you are (purposely) mistating events for dramatic effect.
    This is a topic for a whole other series of threads that have already been beaten to death. I think faulty intel is more to blame than 'In God We Trust' for the Iraq debacle.
    The early American settlers believed that God led them to the 'New World' and it was their 'Manifest Desinty' to spread His gospel far and wide. While I don't agree with the way they did it, I don't see that they took actions that were contradictory to what they espoused, therefore, the hypocrisy part of this statement is inaccurate.

    Anyway...we can argue this until we're blue in the face, but I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that we will not see 'Under God' nor 'In God We Trust' removed from the pledge of allegiance and our money respectively in my lifetime. I will turn 37 this year, and I am taking care of myself better these days so I plan to be around a LONG time.:jiggy:
     
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  20. retrorich

    retrorich SUPER NOT-A-MOD

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    The fact is that Africans were forced into slavery, and America helped continue their slavery.
    :biglaugh:Did they utilize other methods of navigation as well?
    "Manifest Destiny to spread his gospel"? Looks like Bush is continuing that hypocritical policy.
    I hope you are around for a VERY long time, my good friend--even if you continue to vote Republican. :) I will turn 65 this April, and I hope I will at least live long enough to see Bushtard out of office!
     
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