1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

In Defense of Decency

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Ellen Brown, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4,230
    Ratings:
    +2,051
    I'm not going to provide a bunch of references because we were all privy to what went on in the process to dubiously get Donald Trump pseudo elected.

    We all heard him bragging about grabbing women by their p######. We heard him telling security to throw dissenters out of his political rallies. We all know about the accusations that he went to bed with the Russians to manipulate the system so he would wind up occupying the White House. (Notice that I do not believe he was legally elected).

    I think a large part of his pretend success is that he used unacceptable and antisocially rude commentary to level accusations at his opponents. It is amazing to me that the Republicans did not have anyone to run against him in the primaries. What about Kasich? Admittedly, Hilary was not suitable, and what happened to Bernie? I was AT the rallie when the bird landed on his podium, and had hoped that it was a sign from God or omen or something.

    I remember when Bush was reelected and could not believe it happened. I believe the elections were being manipulated even then. Sure, perhaps pursuing Bin Laden into Afghanistan seemed like a good idea. But for me, going into Iraq was only ever about the oil there, and not about Saddam. There were no WMD's (I was surprised to read that Iraq is supposed to have the world's largest oil reserves, next to Iran) Yes, Saudi Arabia is running out.

    And, Bush is said to have lied to the Congress 26 times. I believe that Trump lies that much every day.

    I remember when Obama was elected. In every major city in America, there were parties all over the streets. I'm not astute enough to know what he did to so anger the Republicans, though I heard that the immigration policy first separating families started under Obama.

    I'll confess to not having a single political cell in my body. For me it is all about common decency.

    I just wish that people would get back to saying please and thank you, and telling the truth.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 3
  2. Misunderstood

    Misunderstood Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Ratings:
    +315
    Religion:
    Christian
    I wholeheartedly agree with this, I would just add that people treat each other with civility even if they do not agree on everything.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56,713
    Ratings:
    +25,864
    Religion:
    Love
    For some, being honest, moral and kind is conceived of as utterly wrong and weak and they start mocking and calling names any who uphold that civilization is based on civility. People have a deep longing for truth, justice, fairness. And that longing will be realized.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  4. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    876
    Ratings:
    +415
    Religion:
    Madokaism
    Republican voters wanted to win so bad they threw out all their morals just too win. They elected the literal representation of the evil that in our capitalistic system today.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus άντρας των αστεριών

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,633
    Ratings:
    +1,458
    Religion:
    The Creator
    1 Peter 3:9

    The sermon at my church yesterday was on this. The pastor just mentioned in passing, as an example, the ugliness around Sen. McCain's funeral. I was dismayed that one fellow shouted out that 'our Trump got the last word' (then he laughed). The pastor seemed a bit shocked (like most everyone there) but then asked 'what do you mean?'. The man replied about how 'Trump stood up for the country (!) by not lowering the WH flag half-mast'.

    Sigh. Not even in worship can I escape it. The message, the point of the sermon, was obviously lost on the guy.
     
    #5 Regiomontanus, Sep 3, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,148
    Ratings:
    +7,966
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    The ignorant, violence-prone 'bully-boys' are always among us. They exist in every society of humans, lurking and awaiting their chance to rise up and spread mayhem. And it's the expectation of general civility within our cultures that is how we usually keep these bullies at bay. As they know that the suffering and mayhem they desire to create is not acceptable, and will not be allowed by the rest of us, collectively.

    Unfortunately, every so often, some political entity or other gets the bright idea that they can gain or hold onto political power by pandering to and enabling these 'bully-boys' that are always lurking among us. And that's what has happened here in the U.S.,. It began with Carl Rove stirring up racists and religious bigots to get his otherwise unelectable candidate (George W. Bush) elected to public office in Texas and then on the ticket as the republican candidate for president against John McCain. And because his tactic worked, the republican party hailed him a "genius", and has been pandering to these religious and racial bigots (bully-boys) ever since. But Trump stepped it all up a notch by openly pandering to violence-prone white supremacists; the most overt and extreme of the American bigots and bully-boys. And real violence soon followed.

    And so now, thanks to decades of republican pandering to these goons and bully-boys among us, they are feeling empowered again. The general civility that our culture used to engage in regarding religion, race, politics, and general social interaction has been seriously eroded, thanks to the republican party's need to win elections by any means and at any cost.

    And the civility and human decency and respect that we once expected of each other in the public arena in this country has been lost. (The republican goons and their supporters refer to this civility as "political correctness", and demean it at every opportunity.) And look what we've gotten from the republican party for paying that price! Dishonesty, greed, decades of warfare, stagnant wages, job loss, homes lost, all while the wealthy elite that the republican party exists to serve just keep getting richer and richer. It was a lose/lose for the American people. And it will take decades to undo all the damage that's been done, if it ever can be.

    Those who refuse to learn the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them. And the bully-boys are always there, waiting. Well, right now, they're baaaack!
     
    #6 PureX, Sep 3, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    17,869
    Ratings:
    +10,433
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I've seen a general decline in decency over the years, although it's hard to say if it's worse now than it was 50 years ago. I think there's more of a dog-eat-dog, screw-the-little-people mentality which has arisen over the past few decades. I think it's also reflected in the culture and the mores people embrace. The prevailing mentality is encapsulated in this line from the movie Goodfellas:

    Henry Hill: [narrating] For us to live any other way was nuts. Uh, to us, those goody-good people who worked sh*tty jobs for bum paychecks and took the subway to work every day, and worried about their bills, were dead. I mean, they were suckers. They had no balls. If we wanted something, we just took it. If anyone complained twice they got hit so bad, believe me, they never complained again.

    Pretty much all my life, I've been hearing how much those "goody-good people" are disdained and disrespected, along with such pithy phrases as "nice guys finish last." As a society, we've embraced such amoral philosophies enthusiastically (thinking that it was "cool"), yet now we're all wondering why nobody is nice anymore.

    It really shouldn't be that difficult to figure out, at least for those of us willing to take a long, hard look at the recent history of this country and how we got to this point. The real underlying problem that I've seen is that the upper classes have reached a point where their livelihoods and the political stability of the country has become absolutely dependent upon the "suckers" and "goody-good people" that they've been showing so much disdain for. They've taken too much for granted lately, and now they're upset that the "suckers" were sucked in by someone else they don't like.

    But they can't have it both ways. The Powers That Be in this country have been hobnobbing and rubbing elbows with those big city Mafia boys for so long, yet they somehow didn't realize that there would eventually be consequences and fallout for their devious, despicable ways. The Russian Mafia made our own homegrown Mafia look like a bunch of fools, and they got outmaneuvered in their own sick game of power politics.

    I understand what you're saying here, Ellen Brown. I also grieve for the loss of civility and decency in our society, but I also recognize that we didn't get this way overnight. I don't think it started with Trump, though. Trump is merely a symbol and a symptom of a far deeper problem that most people don't seem willing to address or acknowledge. A lot of people seem to think that America's problems begin and end with Trump, which just goes to show just how far off the mark most people are in analyzing the problems and issues facing this country today.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  8. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,148
    Ratings:
    +7,966
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    Trump is just the latest in a long line of politicians that pander to our worst inclinations rather then our best. And it's certainly not just the politicians doing it, it's the media, too; making money off pitting citizens against each other (Jerry Springer and his ilk), politicians against each other (every news show on the air), ideals against each other (Limbaugh, Fox, TV preachers, etc.), just to keep us tuned into their latest "cage match" (and thereby their advertisers paid-for airtime). And it's our own fault, too, for falling for it every time. Over and over and over and over. Because in the end, WE'RE the ones letting loose those "lesser angels" within.
     
  9. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,880
    Ratings:
    +2,724
    Religion:
    Living
    If (and the key word is if) you are that concerned demand that democrats, or any other party opposed to Trump, have a solid platform to run and stand on. What does the opposition have to offer America? Hopefully more than "he's gonna start WWIII, Hitler, racism, Russians, he's a jerk etc. etc.. But these things will not be forgotten. Give them some substance or actual hope instead of rhetoric and the dems might actually win.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    72,161
    Ratings:
    +28,101
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    I really want to believe that.
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    72,161
    Ratings:
    +28,101
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    What I find very interesting, at least for a while (I don't know if they still do) "the" Fox News ran Scientology commercials. :confused:
     
  12. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,880
    Ratings:
    +2,724
    Religion:
    Living
    Will this be the angle the dems will go for in the next election? To make up for lack of substance, I think it is. I can see the hats now... "Make America Moral Again!" MAMA hats lol!
     
  13. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,844
    Ratings:
    +2,527
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    The Republicans were idiots. What was it, like 15-20 of them who ran against Trump and refused to drop out of the race? Trump wouldn't have gotten the nomination if it were just a small handful of other Republicans debating him. But instead, they all stayed in the race way too long, and Trump was the only one of them anybody remembered. And of course, the Democrats also failed miserably by nominating one of the least popular politicians in the country.
     
  14. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    17,869
    Ratings:
    +10,433
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Indeed. For my part, I've been having conversations like this for a long time - even before the internet and social media became things. I recognized that the country was starting to go in this direction during the Reagan era. Whenever I would broach the subject with people - friends, peers, family members - I'd usually get a lot of static and BS from people who thought that everything was great. "Don't worry, be happy" has been the mantra of our time.

    I'm reminded of a line from the movie Nixon. I don't know if Nixon ever actually said this, but in the movie, it shows him talking to a portrait of JFK and saying "People look at you and they see who they want to be. They look at me and they see what they are." There's a lot of truth to that.

    I think it may be the same with Trump. People look at Trump and see how they actually are. He is a product of our culture and symbolic of the direction America has taken in recent decades. A lot of people are trying to disown him or dissociate themselves from him - as if this is "not really America." But it's not as easy as it might seem.
     
  15. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Messages:
    4,230
    Ratings:
    +2,051

    Regrettably, humans are not different than animals that form herds. Trump was the lead instigator, and if you remember, much of the nastiness and lies occurred on the internet, with social media being the focus. I discovered a few years ago that on Facebook, the most bizarre activities seemed to come from those who had no real accounts. The reason I feel that way is that if I decided to block the mean ones, they did not appear on the member block list, and they often had no real history in their accounts. Frequently, when I did a Google search on them, they were not there.

    Though I do not know, I suspect that much of that activity came from Russian groups, paid on line Anarchists, or perhaps even the Chinese?

    I've had several stalking attempts come through that way.

    I realized something was off as early as 2012, and eventually reported it to Facebook management, though at first they were unresponsive. I hope that the dementers are controlled in future elections.
     
  16. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,945
    Ratings:
    +6,519
    Religion:
    None
    Regarding American discourse, I think that that ship has sailed. The conservatives don't seem to have much use for decency. Most support the most indecent person ever to hold the presidency. They just don't care if he is a continual liar, bigot, business fraud, or serial adulterer and sexual predator. That's apparently all fine with them.

    Nor do they want his taxes or business records examined, nor any other investigation. They don't care that he is likely a tax cheat and money launderer, and they call looking into it a witch hunt.

    My wife and I emigrated from America to Mexico nine years ago. These are a happy people here, not torn, divided, or warring with one another like the people in the States. Religion has not been weaponized.

    I hadn't realized how annoying that din was while living there, like a noise in a room that you don't really notice until you step outside and cease hearing it.

    Actually, pretty much all of our American problems vanished by expatriating. Failing infrastructure? Suffocating debt? Tax cuts for the rich? Alliances being damaged? Water unsafe? Schools being shot up? Elections dishonest? None of these affect our lives any more.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56,713
    Ratings:
    +25,864
    Religion:
    Love
    Feel free to mock morality and ethics and decency and honor as your "God Emperor" does. People are being invited to choose their future now. I'm on the side of "Truth, Justice and the American Way".

    And to me there is no greater substance than compassion. As Abraham Lincoln said "Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right."

     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56,713
    Ratings:
    +25,864
    Religion:
    Love
    And for those who are not interested in the song:

    m2.PNG m3.PNG
     
  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    17,148
    Ratings:
    +7,966
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    I noticed, too, that with the advent of the "W" presidency, a lot of credence was suddenly being given to ignorance. Being uninformed and poorly educated became the new "savvy" American, because Bush himself was so obviously uninformed and poorly educated. And so suddenly every ignoramus in American was "out and proud". Every country-western song was all about it. While being well informed and educated meant you were some sort of egg-headed fool who had fallen for the lies of a biased media, a biased higher education system, and a biased democratic political agenda. The Reagan era ushered in the "greed is good" mantra, but it was the Bush era that made being an ignoramus socially acceptable in this country. And now Trump is legitimizing being a violent, bigoted, ignoramus.

    And the common thread through all of this is the republican party needing to get someone besides the wealthy elite to vote for them to win elections, even though they clearly only serve the wealthy elite.
     
    #19 PureX, Sep 3, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  20. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    13,059
    Ratings:
    +6,448
    Religion:
    atheist
    Actually he faced 16 primary opponents. He cut them to pieces, one by one.
     
Loading...