1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured In Christianity, is Satan Evil, or Does Satan Merely Do Evil?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    73,550
    Ratings:
    +33,506
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    In Christianity, is Satan evil? Or does Satan merely do evil without himself actually being evil?

    Please Note: If Satan is evil, rather than merely an entity that does evil, then God -- who has created Satan -- has created evil (and hence it cannot be said of God that everything he does is good).

    On the other hand, if Satan is merely an entity that does evil, then God -- who presumably has the power to prevent Satan from doing evil -- condones evil when he does not prevent Satan from doing it (and hence, it cannot be said that God never condones evil).

    HOWEVER, it at least seems possible to escape the 'dilemma' if one is prepared to argue for a Platonic notion of evil such that evil is not a thing-in-itself, but rather a lack of -- or absence of -- good.

    YET, whatever we might or might not conclude, we MUST concede that Satan admires @SalixIncendium's fashion sense. Of that, we may be certain.





    ______________________________
    And now, for some music....

     
  2. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    45,469
    Ratings:
    +9,549
    I do not subscribe to the notion that there is a specific being named Satan (or Lucifer) in the Bible.
    Both "names" are not used as names in the Bible.
    They are used as titles.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    23,905
    Ratings:
    +18,316
    Religion:
    None
    Don't know about evil, i see evil as a religious concept i am not qualified to judge

    But on murder count (i class murder as being pretty bad, perhaps even evil) god wins by 1000s of percent.

    Score

    God. 2,000,000 +
    Satan. 10
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    73,550
    Ratings:
    +33,506
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    Relevance?
     
  5. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    73,550
    Ratings:
    +33,506
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    Relevance?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    23,905
    Ratings:
    +18,316
    Religion:
    None
    Relevant informationon the subject only. Murder is pretty bad on the "evil" score chart
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    45,469
    Ratings:
    +9,549
    If it is not the direction you wish the thread to go in, that is fine.
    But to pretend it is not relevant is shortsightedness.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    3,746
    Ratings:
    +2,744
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    I partially disagree - if you mean evil that is evil just for evil's sake - then yes, I don't believe God would create that. But if the evil was created to further the good - then yes, God has created evil, too.
    Most Christians that I've spoken to appear to hold that Satan is a fallen angel - yeah, inherently evil.
     
  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    168,219
    Ratings:
    +52,427
    Religion:
    Bokononist Arrogant Atheism
    To answer the question raises questions....
    Is God all knowing?
    All powerful?
    Able to see the future in all detail.
    If yes, then Satan was created to be exactly who he is.
    If no to any of the questions.....far above my pay grade.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    73,550
    Ratings:
    +33,506
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    But why is it relevant? I genuinely do not understand your thinking here. Can you elaborate, please?
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    38,665
    Ratings:
    +12,384
    Religion:
    Judaism
    And what if one replaces "Satan" with "John Doe"?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2020
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +144
    Religion:
    Abrahamic
    Prideful, Slanderer, and Deceitful: If these are evil then yes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Messages:
    73,550
    Ratings:
    +33,506
    Religion:
    Non-Theistic Mysticism
    I was wondering if anyone was going to catch on.
     
  14. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    45,469
    Ratings:
    +9,549
    If you remove the notion that Satan is a specific being then you no longer have a scapegoat for evil.
    One would have to accept that The Satan is something inside of us that we have to constantly be vigilant against.
    OR
    Give God the credit for evil.
    Which I have noticed is something that the vast majority of Christians are not able to do.

    So if Satan is really nothing more than a part of us, and God created us in his own image, then it stands to reason that evil comes from God.

    To apply this to your two scenarios:
    Scenario A
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    27,179
    Ratings:
    +8,969
    I'd say if I went off scripture, satan was god's holy creator, in this an angel. He chose to disobey god out of jealousy, and ruin the lives of god's creation because of it. Like believers lie and get jealous, the same is seen for satan. They put it under freedom of choice. It gives one the freedom t disobey god and also is a loop hole to where one can separate him or herself from god rather than god being there regardless the circumstances. One's salvation is dependent on the person and not by god. That's basically the gist.

    I don't use the evil term. Has no place in how I see life. It does make sense, if satan was evil, god created evil. I'd say god created an angel and his actions put him in eternal jeopardy. Only people can repent, though. So, maybe that set up-the person who needs the most sacrifice-is immoral and evil of itself going by christian theology, I don't know.
     
  16. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,478
    Ratings:
    +2,291
    IMO Satan is neither it is Satan's job is to test people so that the people can pass the test and be worthy of heaven such as he did to Jesus in the desert. At no point in the bible does it show the Devil doing evil. In fact in The book of Job it shows that the devil must have Gods approval to do anything to a person.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,002
    Ratings:
    +360
    Religion:
    Faithful Jesus believer
    God created everything, but that doesnt naturally include evil, a literal negative thing doesnt exist. Aswell, evil doesnt have a reason, but doesnt need a reason.
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,845
    Ratings:
    +991
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    He is evil. His desire is to be a god. But, if God made everything "good" then what is left for him to be "god" over? So, satan can only be "god" when he does the exact opposite of what God does. Then he is a "god" or you could say he is a creator of his own creation. Which is a twisted version of God's own creation; because satan can make nothing truly new.
    God didn't make satan evil. I believe God tested satan by withholding key knowledge and wisdom. To see how he would respond when he didn't have the full picture. Satan failed the test; he chose pride and that led to all sin. The angels who passed the test are the "elect" (chosen) angels. They've been given higher wisdom and so they are not so easily tempted. And satan is damned but because God has to finish testing humans; God keeps satan around to test people until his judgment day.
     
  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    46,104
    Ratings:
    +4,241
    you are what you do

    if your hand does anything at all
    it's because you thought you should
    or you wanted to
     
  20. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,163
    Ratings:
    +121
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

    Revelation 17:8 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come.

    Luke 8:31 31And they begged Jesus repeatedly not to order them to go into the Abyss.

    Revelation 9:11 11They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer).

    Revelation 11:7 7Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
    Satan rebelled against God because he loved himself more than he loved God. His sin was that of pride and idolatry. The five “I Will” statements of Satan were sinful and brought death. The seven “I Am” statements of Jesus are true and give life and hope.

    A male says to self....all questions. A male as a human and the scientist reasoner...applies all concepts of thinking to self, he and a male.

    Therefore my spiritual Holy Mother as a female taught me to bring to the male humans realization that males, in their God imposed concepts imposed He to those concepts....as the thinker.

    Yet rationally do you male science brother inventor of the state sciences own God?

    No....only by thinking, as a thought does he claim his THOUGHT owned the stories about God, for a human being male is the thinker as that male about the concepts.

    Hence if you believe your thoughts own the concepts about God...then you also prove that you believed your thoughts about the concepts of Satan were also male owned.

    Which brings your realization to the fact that you cannot own claim to being anything accept a natural human male thinking about concepts for the STATE of science.

    You said in male history that Satan was in Hell...meaning a body of spirit that is burning and self consuming. You also know that in natural O Earth history, the stone, Satan attacked it.....and yet the form of Satan....metal radiation mass burning, gets sucked out of the Earth atmosphere and falls into oblivion.

    Therefore you would also quote...so in 1000 years of Earth O stone travel....due to our scientific converting meddling with cold radiation, we get to meet the return of changing natural cold space support...what we learnt...and wish we never did it in that moment.

    So you document your own male human witness and then totally ignore all of your owned experiences.....ever wonder why everyone wondered at the Satanic science mentality? Claiming you never learn your own lesson hence got termed referenced as being the Destroyer male mind in science......as a truth.

    Therefore if you claim that a Sun is the beginning, which you did...then a black hole is the end of a Sun...what a Sun looks like when it is in its last stages.

    Earth relativity said it owned no beginning and it owned no end....for stone did not begin in space as stone...yet it ended as stone in space, yet stone creating beyond itself had not ended.....for it owned the heavenly gases.
    The relativity of old scientific male reasoning...as humans. The storyteller.
    Why Did Satan Rebel Against God? » Reasons for Hope* Jesus

    [​IMG]
    reasonsforhopejesus.com/satan-rebel-god/
     
Loading...