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Important Update on My Random Thoughts Regarding Impeaching Trump

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Over the course of US history, when an incumbent President has run for a second term, he has won more than often than suffering defeat. There would seem to be a variety of plausible reasons for this trend. Of course, Trump is a different matter in numerous ways. Besides all the other ways, the 2018 mid-term elections made it abundantly clear to me that Trump in the White House, representing the Republican party, is a very big asset for Democratic candidates, as undoubtedly would be the case in 2020. Trump seems to energize a lot of people who wouldn't ordinarily vote, or who wouldn't ordinarily vote for Democratic candidates, to do just that.

On the other hand, impeaching and removing Trump from office would conceivably be off-putting to perhaps a large percentage of the small group of swing voters, whose votes the Electoral College requires any successful candidate for President to win. It is far from certain that Trump's conviction by the current Senate would be even possible anyway. But to the eyes of those with even a modicum of traditional conservative leanings, Pence in the White House, compared to the gore of Trump's administration, will look like a white sequined angel descended to earth against a purple velvet backdrop. (I don't know what that means. I feel slightly hallucinatory at the moment.) Pence is undoubtedly more re-electable than Trump is.

Additionally, during the lengthy impeachment process, if it becomes apparent that an impeachment and conviction will happen, Trump will begin spending his 18 idle hours per day pardoning his cronies and family members. In the case of impeachment, Pence will undoubtedly pardon Trump on his (Pence's) last day in office.

Just on the basis of the federal and state civil and criminal offenses noted or otherwise alluded to in the 40-page Complaint for the New York civil suit against the Trumps and the Trump Foundation, I think it's quite likely that, if the cards are played right, the Trumps will be fined out the wazoo, and possibly spend some time in prison after the White House stint. That prospect is so much more delicious, so much more metaphysically nourishing, than mere impeachment. I've seen plenty of cases of 501(c) organizations set up and operated for no other reason than to engage in criminal activities. But I've never seen a more blatant, extensive and and egregious case than what the Complaint describes.

The Complaint sets out numerous facts upfront by which the Trump Foundation carried out its unlawful purposes. The Foundation has never had any employees, delegating all its operations to the accounting office of the Trump Organization. The Board of the Foundation--consisting of Trump, and, after 2006, Eric, Junior and, until January 2017, Ivanka--never had any criteria for approving or disbursing monies in furtherance of any charitable mission. The Board has not met since 1999. The Complaint points out that “the sole [criterion] that the accounting staff [of the Trump Organization] used to determine whether to issue a check from the Foundation, rather than another entity in the Trump Organization or Mr. Trump personally, was the tax-exempt status of the intended recipient; no one made any inquiry into the purpose of the payment.”

The Complaint lists 6 separate statutory causes of action (and notes at least one instance of what I usually call a “statuesque cause of action”), which seem to represent at least 18-24 violations committed by Trump, Eric, Junior and/or the Foundation collectively. This suit will undoubtedly be ongoing for many years. Several of the counts are slam-dunk because people with the Trump Organization suddenly began trying to correct the violations as soon as they learned there was an investigation; these sudden and otherwise inexplicable attempts to at least partly correct the unlawful self-dealing and contributions indicate a consciousness of wrongdoing. Nevertheless, it's going to be a lot of work for any single jury sort out the facts, understand the sometimes complex laws, and determine the liabilities in each of the counts.

Just to note one example of wrongdoing:

33. In 2016, the Board [of the Foundation] knowingly permitted the Foundation to be co-opted by Mr. Trump's presidential campaign, and thereby violated its certificate of incorporation and state and federal law by engaging in political activity and prohibited related-party transactions. Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. (the "Campaign"), Mr. Trump's political committee, extensively directed and coordinated the Foundation's activities in connection with a nationally televised charity fundraiser for the Foundation in Des Moines, Iowa on January 28, 2016 (the "Iowa Fundraiser"), and the disbursements of the proceeds from the event.

34. Candidate Trump decided to conduct the Iowa Fundraiser in lieu of participating in a televised debate of the Republican presidential candidates. The events took place less than one week before the February 1, 2016 Iowa caucuses.

35. In a filing submitted to the Attorney General's Charities Bureau, signed by Mr. Trump as President of the Foundation and dated October 20, 2016, the Foundation asserted that it "held [the Iowa Fundraiser] to raise funds for veterans' organizations . . . [and that it] created a website to allow donors to make charitable contributions online." (2016 Form CHAR410-A, Part G, Line 3(c).) This statement was false because, in reality, the Fundraiser was a Trump Campaign event in which the Foundation participated.

36. The Investigation revealed that the Iowa Fundraiser was planned, organized, financed, and directed by the Campaign, with administrative assistance from the Foundation. [. . . ]​

The Complaint spends the remainder of paragraph 36 and the subsequent 3 paragraphs describing the pre-event arrangements by persons employed by and on behalf of the Campaign.

40. Following the Iowa Fundraiser, the Foundation ceded control over the charitable funds it raised to senior Trump Campaign staff, who dictated the manner in which the Foundation would disburse those proceeds, directing the timing, amounts and recipients of the grants.

[. . . ]

58. The Foundation's disbursements of funds from the Iowa Fundraiser were related-party transactions. As detailed above, the Foundation ceded control over the grants to the Campaign, making an improper in-kind contribution of no less than $2.823 million (the amount donated to the Foundation) to the Campaign that provided Mr. Trump and the Campaign a means to take credit at campaign rallies, press briefings, and on the Internet, for gifts to veterans charities. The Foundation's grants made Mr. Trump and the Campaign look charitable and increased the candidate's profile to Republican primary voters and among important constituent groups.
The Complaint cites numerous instances of Trump boasting at campaign rallies about his personal donations to veterans. The podium at the Fundraiser brandished Trump's trademarked campaign slogan “Make America Great Again!” at the top. The campaign slogan was printed on the enlarged checks presented to veterans groups. The website for the Iowa fundraiser heralded the campaign slogan “Make America Great Again!” on the first page.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I can't stop myself from noting more example of stunningly flagrant multiple illegal acts:

61. On September 9, 2013, the Foundation issued a check in the amount of $25,000 to "And Justice for All," a political organization located at 610 S. Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, established under Section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code to support the re-election of Pam Bondi to the position of Florida Attorney General. Private foundations such as the Foundation are prohibited under the Code from making political contributions.

62. The Foundation represented on its 2013 IRS tax return that it did not contribute to a Section 527 political organization and did not participate in any political campaign. In its list of specific contributions on the 2013 tax return, the Foundation did not disclose its contribution to And Just for All in Tampa, Florida. Instead, it listed a $25,000 contribution to a Kansas-based Section 501(c)(3) organization with a similar name, Justice for All. Contrary to this disclosure, the Foundation never made a contribution to the Kansas-based Justice for All.

63. On August 28, 2013, Deborah Aleksander, a Bondi campaign fundraiser with an @pambondi.com email address, emailed Rhona Graff, Mr. Trump's executive assistant, to thank Mr. Trump for his commitment of $25,000 to an "ECO" named And Justice for All, and to provide the organization's federal tax identification number. ECO is a Florida Division of Elections abbreviation for "electioneering communications organization."

64. Mr. Trump initialed a printed copy of the email to indicate his approval for the payment. Ms. Graff gave this printed copy to a Trump Organization accounts payable clerk, Deborah Tarasoff. Ms. Tarasoff, who maintained that she assumed And Justice for All was a charitable organization, testified that she looked in an IRS publication of tax-exempt organizations she kept in her office, and found an organization with the same name, which the IRS showed as located in Salt Lake City, Utah. She cut the Foundation check, dated September 9, 2013, and sent it to Mr. Trump's office for signature. Ms. Tarasoff testified that she did not take any steps to confirm that the Utah organization was the intended recipient of the payment. Ms. Tarasoff and Mr. McConney maintain they do not know who mailed the check.

65. Given Ms. Aleksander's email to Ms. Graff, Mr. Trump knew or should have known that the Foundation was making a political contribution because he was aware the contribution was to support Ms. Bondi's re-election campaign and he personally signed the Foundation check.

66. In disclosing grant recipients to the IRS, the Foundation did not list on its Form 990-PF either the actual unlawful recipient of the $25,000 check or the Utah-based group assumed by Ms. Tarasoff to be the recipient, but, rather, a third unrelated group with a similar name, Justice for All, which the form presented as located at 113 N. Martinson St., Wichita, Kansas, 67203. The Foundation did not make a donation to Justice for All.

67. The Foundation has no credible explanation for the false reporting of grant recipients to the IRS and the State of New York. Mr. McConney testified that the IRS Form 990-PF was prepared by the Foundation's accountants, Weisermazars LLP, and that the accountants relied on the information in the Foundation's general ledger and bank statements. But the general ledger and bank statements do not show a disbursement to Justice for All at 113 N. Martinson St., Wichita, Kansas. They show the disbursement to And Justice for All, with no address given.

[. . . ]

70. Section 4955 of the Code imposes an excise tax on political expenditures by Section 501(c)(3) organizations. Under Section 6652 of the Code, a tax-exempt organization that, without reasonable cause, fails to include any of the information required on a Form 990 tax return, or fails to provide the correct information, is liable for civil penalties.

71. On March 22, 2016, the Washington Post reported that a government watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington ("CREW"), had the day before filed a complaint with the IRS about the "And Justice for All" contribution and the inaccurate IRS filing. The following day, March 23, 2016, the Foundation filed an IRS Form 4720, signed by Mr., Trump, disclosing the transaction, and Mr. Trump paid the federal excise tax, $2,500, by personal check. Mr. Trump also reimbursed $25,000 to the Foundation.​

It would certainly be unfortunate for Congress to wade into the impeachment process with nothing to show for it in the end but pardons for all those involved in the federal crimes that Trump and his gang have perpetrated--in addition to possibly of even ruining Democrats' chances to gain the White House and various Congressional, state and local seats in 2020.

As of now, I think those in power in Congress should conduct all possible investigations into the wrongdoing of Trump and gang, and take all possible actions to stop Trump from wreaking further havoc--except by initiating impeachment proceedings. What do you think?
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
I can't stop myself from noting more example of stunningly flagrant multiple illegal acts:

61. On September 9, 2013, the Foundation issued a check in the amount of $25,000 to "And Justice for All," a political organization located at 610 S. Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, established under Section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code to support the re-election of Pam Bondi to the position of Florida Attorney General. Private foundations such as the Foundation are prohibited under the Code from making political contributions.

62. The Foundation represented on its 2013 IRS tax return that it did not contribute to a Section 527 political organization and did not participate in any political campaign. In its list of specific contributions on the 2013 tax return, the Foundation did not disclose its contribution to And Just for All in Tampa, Florida. Instead, it listed a $25,000 contribution to a Kansas-based Section 501(c)(3) organization with a similar name, Justice for All. Contrary to this disclosure, the Foundation never made a contribution to the Kansas-based Justice for All.

63. On August 28, 2013, Deborah Aleksander, a Bondi campaign fundraiser with an @pambondi.com email address, emailed Rhona Graff, Mr. Trump's executive assistant, to thank Mr. Trump for his commitment of $25,000 to an "ECO" named And Justice for All, and to provide the organization's federal tax identification number. ECO is a Florida Division of Elections abbreviation for "electioneering communications organization."

64. Mr. Trump initialed a printed copy of the email to indicate his approval for the payment. Ms. Graff gave this printed copy to a Trump Organization accounts payable clerk, Deborah Tarasoff. Ms. Tarasoff, who maintained that she assumed And Justice for All was a charitable organization, testified that she looked in an IRS publication of tax-exempt organizations she kept in her office, and found an organization with the same name, which the IRS showed as located in Salt Lake City, Utah. She cut the Foundation check, dated September 9, 2013, and sent it to Mr. Trump's office for signature. Ms. Tarasoff testified that she did not take any steps to confirm that the Utah organization was the intended recipient of the payment. Ms. Tarasoff and Mr. McConney maintain they do not know who mailed the check.

65. Given Ms. Aleksander's email to Ms. Graff, Mr. Trump knew or should have known that the Foundation was making a political contribution because he was aware the contribution was to support Ms. Bondi's re-election campaign and he personally signed the Foundation check.

66. In disclosing grant recipients to the IRS, the Foundation did not list on its Form 990-PF either the actual unlawful recipient of the $25,000 check or the Utah-based group assumed by Ms. Tarasoff to be the recipient, but, rather, a third unrelated group with a similar name, Justice for All, which the form presented as located at 113 N. Martinson St., Wichita, Kansas, 67203. The Foundation did not make a donation to Justice for All.

67. The Foundation has no credible explanation for the false reporting of grant recipients to the IRS and the State of New York. Mr. McConney testified that the IRS Form 990-PF was prepared by the Foundation's accountants, Weisermazars LLP, and that the accountants relied on the information in the Foundation's general ledger and bank statements. But the general ledger and bank statements do not show a disbursement to Justice for All at 113 N. Martinson St., Wichita, Kansas. They show the disbursement to And Justice for All, with no address given.

[. . . ]

70. Section 4955 of the Code imposes an excise tax on political expenditures by Section 501(c)(3) organizations. Under Section 6652 of the Code, a tax-exempt organization that, without reasonable cause, fails to include any of the information required on a Form 990 tax return, or fails to provide the correct information, is liable for civil penalties.

71. On March 22, 2016, the Washington Post reported that a government watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington ("CREW"), had the day before filed a complaint with the IRS about the "And Justice for All" contribution and the inaccurate IRS filing. The following day, March 23, 2016, the Foundation filed an IRS Form 4720, signed by Mr., Trump, disclosing the transaction, and Mr. Trump paid the federal excise tax, $2,500, by personal check. Mr. Trump also reimbursed $25,000 to the Foundation.​

It would certainly be unfortunate for Congress to wade into the impeachment process with nothing to show for it in the end but pardons for all those involved in the federal crimes that Trump and his gang have perpetrated--in addition to possibly of even ruining Democrats' chances to gain the White House and various Congressional, state and local seats in 2020.

As of now, I think those in power in Congress should conduct all possible investigations into the wrongdoing of Trump and gang, and take all possible actions to stop Trump from wreaking further havoc--except by initiating impeachment proceedings. What do you think?
Picky, Picky.:)
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Over the course of US history, when an incumbent President has run for a second term, he has won more than often than suffering defeat. There would seem to be a variety of plausible reasons for this trend. Of course, Trump is a different matter in numerous ways. Besides all the other ways, the 2018 mid-term elections made it abundantly clear to me that Trump in the White House, representing the Republican party, is a very big asset for Democratic candidates, as undoubtedly would be the case in 2020. Trump seems to energize a lot of people who wouldn't ordinarily vote, or who wouldn't ordinarily vote for Democratic candidates, to do just that.

On the other hand, impeaching and removing Trump from office would conceivably be off-putting to perhaps a large percentage of the small group of swing voters, whose votes the Electoral College requires any successful candidate for President to win. It is far from certain that Trump's conviction by the current Senate would be even possible anyway. But to the eyes of those with even a modicum of traditional conservative leanings, Pence in the White House, compared to the gore of Trump's administration, will look like a white sequined angel descended to earth against a purple velvet backdrop. (I don't know what that means. I feel slightly hallucinatory at the moment.) Pence is undoubtedly more re-electable than Trump is.

Additionally, during the lengthy impeachment process, if it becomes apparent that an impeachment and conviction will happen, Trump will begin spending his 18 idle hours per day pardoning his cronies and family members. In the case of impeachment, Pence will undoubtedly pardon Trump on his (Pence's) last day in office.

Just on the basis of the federal and state civil and criminal offenses noted or otherwise alluded to in the 40-page Complaint for the New York civil suit against the Trumps and the Trump Foundation, I think it's quite likely that, if the cards are played right, the Trumps will be fined out the wazoo, and possibly spend some time in prison after the White House stint. That prospect is so much more delicious, so much more metaphysically nourishing, than mere impeachment. I've seen plenty of cases of 501(c) organizations set up and operated for no other reason than to engage in criminal activities. But I've never seen a more blatant, extensive and and egregious case than what the Complaint describes.

The Complaint sets out numerous facts upfront by which the Trump Foundation carried out its unlawful purposes. The Foundation has never had any employees, delegating all its operations to the accounting office of the Trump Organization. The Board of the Foundation--consisting of Trump, and, after 2006, Eric, Junior and, until January 2017, Ivanka--never had any criteria for approving or disbursing monies in furtherance of any charitable mission. The Board has not met since 1999. The Complaint points out that “the sole [criterion] that the accounting staff [of the Trump Organization] used to determine whether to issue a check from the Foundation, rather than another entity in the Trump Organization or Mr. Trump personally, was the tax-exempt status of the intended recipient; no one made any inquiry into the purpose of the payment.”

The Complaint lists 6 separate statutory causes of action (and notes at least one instance of what I usually call a “statuesque cause of action”), which seem to represent at least 18-24 violations committed by Trump, Eric, Junior and/or the Foundation collectively. This suit will undoubtedly be ongoing for many years. Several of the counts are slam-dunk because people with the Trump Organization suddenly began trying to correct the violations as soon as they learned there was an investigation; these sudden and otherwise inexplicable attempts to at least partly correct the unlawful self-dealing and contributions indicate a consciousness of wrongdoing. Nevertheless, it's going to be a lot of work for any single jury sort out the facts, understand the sometimes complex laws, and determine the liabilities in each of the counts.

Just to note one example of wrongdoing:

33. In 2016, the Board [of the Foundation] knowingly permitted the Foundation to be co-opted by Mr. Trump's presidential campaign, and thereby violated its certificate of incorporation and state and federal law by engaging in political activity and prohibited related-party transactions. Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. (the "Campaign"), Mr. Trump's political committee, extensively directed and coordinated the Foundation's activities in connection with a nationally televised charity fundraiser for the Foundation in Des Moines, Iowa on January 28, 2016 (the "Iowa Fundraiser"), and the disbursements of the proceeds from the event.

34. Candidate Trump decided to conduct the Iowa Fundraiser in lieu of participating in a televised debate of the Republican presidential candidates. The events took place less than one week before the February 1, 2016 Iowa caucuses.

35. In a filing submitted to the Attorney General's Charities Bureau, signed by Mr. Trump as President of the Foundation and dated October 20, 2016, the Foundation asserted that it "held [the Iowa Fundraiser] to raise funds for veterans' organizations . . . [and that it] created a website to allow donors to make charitable contributions online." (2016 Form CHAR410-A, Part G, Line 3(c).) This statement was false because, in reality, the Fundraiser was a Trump Campaign event in which the Foundation participated.

36. The Investigation revealed that the Iowa Fundraiser was planned, organized, financed, and directed by the Campaign, with administrative assistance from the Foundation. [. . . ]​

The Complaint spends the remainder of paragraph 36 and the subsequent 3 paragraphs describing the pre-event arrangements by persons employed by and on behalf of the Campaign.

40. Following the Iowa Fundraiser, the Foundation ceded control over the charitable funds it raised to senior Trump Campaign staff, who dictated the manner in which the Foundation would disburse those proceeds, directing the timing, amounts and recipients of the grants.

[. . . ]

58. The Foundation's disbursements of funds from the Iowa Fundraiser were related-party transactions. As detailed above, the Foundation ceded control over the grants to the Campaign, making an improper in-kind contribution of no less than $2.823 million (the amount donated to the Foundation) to the Campaign that provided Mr. Trump and the Campaign a means to take credit at campaign rallies, press briefings, and on the Internet, for gifts to veterans charities. The Foundation's grants made Mr. Trump and the Campaign look charitable and increased the candidate's profile to Republican primary voters and among important constituent groups.
The Complaint cites numerous instances of Trump boasting at campaign rallies about his personal donations to veterans. The podium at the Fundraiser brandished Trump's trademarked campaign slogan “Make America Great Again!” at the top. The campaign slogan was printed on the enlarged checks presented to veterans groups. The website for the Iowa fundraiser heralded the campaign slogan “Make America Great Again!” on the first page.


I support impeachment. It's the right thing to do about a president guilty of impeachable offenses.

There will be no conviction by a Republican Senate - just an embarrassing process for Trump and a well-deserved, permanent stain on his legacy.

"Lock him up! Lock him up"
 

averageJOE

zombie
Then what? Put Pence in power for the next two years, with the potential of winning the next 2 elections, keeping him in the White House for 10 years?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Then what? Put Pence in power for the next two years, with the potential of winning the next 2 elections, keeping him in the White House for 10 years?
We shouldn't balk at holding people accountable because we dont know how the people who replace them would behave.

Besides, even as an adamant atheist with a long history of fighting against the evangelical agenda, I would rather have Pence than Trump at this juncture. Would rather fight that than the toxic corruption coming from Trump.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
We shouldn't balk at holding people accountable because we dont know how the people who replace them would behave.

Besides, even as an adamant atheist with a long history of fighting against the evangelical agenda, I would rather have Pence than Trump at this juncture. Would rather fight that than the toxic corruption coming from Trump.


What is it that we need to hold Trump accountable for?
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
But what has he been charged with? Do you not believe in the presumption of innocence, or does that only apply to those that think like you?
Has nothing to do with 'presumption of innocence' and everything to do with house and Senate republicans covering their interests. If this were purely up to a judicial committee I'd have more faith in the system.

As it us we are sitting under the administration which has been most provably corrupt in the entire history of the United states, with more indictments and convictions than even the Nixon presidency.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I can't stop myself from noting more example of stunningly flagrant multiple illegal acts:

61. On September 9, 2013, the Foundation issued a check in the amount of $25,000 to "And Justice for All," a political organization located at 610 S. Boulevard, Tampa, Florida, established under Section 527 of the Internal Revenue Code to support the re-election of Pam Bondi to the position of Florida Attorney General. Private foundations such as the Foundation are prohibited under the Code from making political contributions.

62. The Foundation represented on its 2013 IRS tax return that it did not contribute to a Section 527 political organization and did not participate in any political campaign. In its list of specific contributions on the 2013 tax return, the Foundation did not disclose its contribution to And Just for All in Tampa, Florida. Instead, it listed a $25,000 contribution to a Kansas-based Section 501(c)(3) organization with a similar name, Justice for All. Contrary to this disclosure, the Foundation never made a contribution to the Kansas-based Justice for All.

63. On August 28, 2013, Deborah Aleksander, a Bondi campaign fundraiser with an @pambondi.com email address, emailed Rhona Graff, Mr. Trump's executive assistant, to thank Mr. Trump for his commitment of $25,000 to an "ECO" named And Justice for All, and to provide the organization's federal tax identification number. ECO is a Florida Division of Elections abbreviation for "electioneering communications organization."

64. Mr. Trump initialed a printed copy of the email to indicate his approval for the payment. Ms. Graff gave this printed copy to a Trump Organization accounts payable clerk, Deborah Tarasoff. Ms. Tarasoff, who maintained that she assumed And Justice for All was a charitable organization, testified that she looked in an IRS publication of tax-exempt organizations she kept in her office, and found an organization with the same name, which the IRS showed as located in Salt Lake City, Utah. She cut the Foundation check, dated September 9, 2013, and sent it to Mr. Trump's office for signature. Ms. Tarasoff testified that she did not take any steps to confirm that the Utah organization was the intended recipient of the payment. Ms. Tarasoff and Mr. McConney maintain they do not know who mailed the check.

65. Given Ms. Aleksander's email to Ms. Graff, Mr. Trump knew or should have known that the Foundation was making a political contribution because he was aware the contribution was to support Ms. Bondi's re-election campaign and he personally signed the Foundation check.

66. In disclosing grant recipients to the IRS, the Foundation did not list on its Form 990-PF either the actual unlawful recipient of the $25,000 check or the Utah-based group assumed by Ms. Tarasoff to be the recipient, but, rather, a third unrelated group with a similar name, Justice for All, which the form presented as located at 113 N. Martinson St., Wichita, Kansas, 67203. The Foundation did not make a donation to Justice for All.

67. The Foundation has no credible explanation for the false reporting of grant recipients to the IRS and the State of New York. Mr. McConney testified that the IRS Form 990-PF was prepared by the Foundation's accountants, Weisermazars LLP, and that the accountants relied on the information in the Foundation's general ledger and bank statements. But the general ledger and bank statements do not show a disbursement to Justice for All at 113 N. Martinson St., Wichita, Kansas. They show the disbursement to And Justice for All, with no address given.

[. . . ]

70. Section 4955 of the Code imposes an excise tax on political expenditures by Section 501(c)(3) organizations. Under Section 6652 of the Code, a tax-exempt organization that, without reasonable cause, fails to include any of the information required on a Form 990 tax return, or fails to provide the correct information, is liable for civil penalties.

71. On March 22, 2016, the Washington Post reported that a government watchdog group, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington ("CREW"), had the day before filed a complaint with the IRS about the "And Justice for All" contribution and the inaccurate IRS filing. The following day, March 23, 2016, the Foundation filed an IRS Form 4720, signed by Mr., Trump, disclosing the transaction, and Mr. Trump paid the federal excise tax, $2,500, by personal check. Mr. Trump also reimbursed $25,000 to the Foundation.​

It would certainly be unfortunate for Congress to wade into the impeachment process with nothing to show for it in the end but pardons for all those involved in the federal crimes that Trump and his gang have perpetrated--in addition to possibly of even ruining Democrats' chances to gain the White House and various Congressional, state and local seats in 2020.

As of now, I think those in power in Congress should conduct all possible investigations into the wrongdoing of Trump and gang, and take all possible actions to stop Trump from wreaking further havoc--except by initiating impeachment proceedings. What do you think?


First I must confess, I only skimmed through your post. I may return to digest it in more detail.
Personally, and without research or a great deal of forethought, I think the longer Trump is in office, the less likely he is to be re-elected. The damage will just keep piling up. As to impeachment, this might give pro-Trumpers something to rally around.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Has nothing to do with 'presumption of innocence' and everything to do with house and Senate republicans covering their interests. If this were purely up to a judicial committee I'd have more faith in the system.

As it us we are sitting under the administration which has been most provably corrupt in the entire history of the United states, with more indictments and convictions than even the Nixon presidency.

Obviously you believe in re-writing history. I believe Harding still holds that distinction. You would think as bad as Trump is something would have surfaced in the last two years to incriminate him.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I just hope they'd put this much effort into keeping check on a Democrat president.
Google "Clinton Impeachment".

The main reason I strongly oppose impeachment proceedings against Trump is because I remember the mess impeachment made last time. It was a total circus freak show, doing huge damage to basic US institutions and confidence in our government, both domestically and around the world.

I expect this one would be even worse. A lot worse.
Tom

ETA ~worse than Trump. And that's going a piece~
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Google "Clinton Impeachment".

The main reason I strongly oppose impeachment proceedings against Trump is because I remember the mess impeachment made last time. It was a total circus freak show, doing huge damage to basic US institutions and confidence in our government, both domestically and around the world.

I expect this one would be even worse. A lot worse.
Tom

ETA ~worse than Trump. And that's going a piece~
The Clinton impeachment had some very positive effects....
1) It killed the very oppressive Hillarycare (far worse than Obamacare).
2) It curbed Bill's trampling civil liberties.
3) The jokes.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The only way that an impeachment will occur is if the Republicans wake up and realize that Trump is sinking their party. If Republicans lead the charge Trump will be impeached and convicted. Otherwise I think that the Democrats have learned the lesson of the Clinton impeachment that @columbus just brought up and will reap huge benefits at the next election.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
The Clinton impeachment had some very positive effects....
1) It killed the very oppressive Hillarycare (far worse than Obamacare).
2) It curbed Bill's trampling civil liberties.
3) The jokes.
I don't think those quite balance setting the stage for the disasters in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the Republican Recession of 2007.
Tom
 
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