Important Questionnaire #12: Getting at the Truth

[Sunstone]

This questionnaire is important to me: I am gathering member feedback to help me make better policy decisions. Please help out by responding to it.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement: "Debates are more useful than discussions when it comes to getting at the truth."

Please pick which one of these five options is closest to your views. If you do not see an option that suits you, please accept this poll was not designed for you, and move on.

OPTION ONE: I very strongly agree with the statement.

OPTION TWO: I somewhat agree with the statement.

OPTION THREE: I neither agree nor disagree with the statement.

OPTION FOUR: I somewhat disagree with the statement.

OPTION FIVE: I strongly disagree with the statement.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Option three for me.

 

[sun rise]

I voted in the middle because it depends on the people and what kind of debate. Oxford rules, anyone?

 

[Altfish]

What is 'Truth'?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

#5

even though we have 'debate' threads, I don't think we often have anything resembling real debates...just rhetorical attacks and counterattacks...doesn't seem to improve things for anyone...

In discussions, there's at least a chance that someone will learn something...

 

[ecco]

Option #5 because neither debates nor discussions lead to truth.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Both are useless in getting the truth. The contestants don't change their positions, Thy are in the business of proving the other wrong. Calling it debate or discussion, it hardly matters.

 

[Rival]

Both are useless in getting the truth. The contestants don't change their positions, Thy are in the business of proving the other wrong. Calling it debate or discussion, it hardly matters.

Actually some debates on here have changed my mind but gradually. Don't expect it to happen overnight.

 

[Rival]

What is 'Truth'?

That which is factual. I'm tired of relativist claptrap. Either something is true or it's not. I don't really know why people struggle with this. I think moderns like to use 'truth' really meaning something more akin to one's deeply held beliefs. I think this is absurd.

Just my little rant.

 

[Altfish]

That which is factual. I'm tired of relativist claptrap. Either something is true or it's not. I don't really know why people struggle with this. I think moderns like to use 'truth' really meaning something more akin to one's deeply held beliefs. I think this is absurd.

Just my little rant.

OK, 2+2 =4 is true

But when you get onto stuff like (say) "What is the best album by The Beatles?" - it is all subjective.

 

[Samael_Khan]

This questionnaire is important to me: I am gathering member feedback to help me make better policy decisions. Please help out by responding to it.

How strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement: "Debates are more useful than discussions when it comes to getting at the truth."

Please pick which one of these five options is closest to your views. If you do not see an option that suits you, please accept this poll was not designed for you, and move on.

OPTION ONE: I very strongly agree with the statement.

OPTION TWO: I somewhat agree with the statement.

OPTION THREE: I neither agree nor disagree with the statement.

OPTION FOUR: I somewhat disagree with the statement.

OPTION FIVE: I strongly disagree with the statement.

Depends on the nature of the people involved. Debate is more about who is good at arguing rather than finding truth. Discussion helps us understand each others viewpoints and it might get us to the truth about the person we are chatting with.

 

[Secret Chief]

I voted in the middle because it depends on the people and what kind of debate. Oxford rules, anyone?

You're lucky if you get the Queensberry rules.

 

[Rival]

OK, 2+2 =4 is true

But when you get onto stuff like (say) "What is the best album by The Beatles?" - it is all subjective.

Yes and what is subjective is not true.

True = The Beatles were a musical band.

Not true = The Beatles made the best music.

The 2nd is a subjective opinion and there is no such thing as a true opinion as once an opinion is true it is no longer an opinion but a fact.

 

[Altfish]

Yes and what is subjective is not true.

True = The Beatles were a musical band.

Not true = The Beatles made the best music.

The 2nd is a subjective opinion and there is no such thing as a true opinion as once an opinion is true it is no longer an opinion but a fact.

Thus, there is not a lot that can be discussed if the aim is to get to the 'truth'

 

[Augustus]

Thus, there is not a lot that can be discussed if the aim is to get to the 'truth'

How many posts have you made about the lies surrounding Brexit?

 

[Revoltingest]

#4 for me.
Understanding the other side is more important than establishing facts.
Now don't get me wrong....facts are useful. "Truth" less so.
But it's how they're chosen & incorporated into a weltanschauung
(ie, worldview...a general perspective) that matters.
People so often think they have the truth.
What they really have is opinions based upon this worldview.
They need to understand the perspective of others because it often
has merit. This fosters more civility, tolerance, & understanding.

 

[Altfish]

How many posts have you made about the lies surrounding Brexit?

4389

 

[Rival]

Thus, there is not a lot that can be discussed if the aim is to get to the 'truth'

Right.

 

[Kenny]

I think in today's context, discussions are better. It gives it a hue of "I'm interested in learning". Whereas debate tends to be a "one up on you" format.

But that just may be my perspective.

 

[Yazata]

How strongly do you agree or disagree with this statement: "Debates are more useful than discussions when it comes to getting at the truth."

Please pick which one of these five options is closest to your views. If you do not see an option that suits you, please accept this poll was not designed for you, and move on.

OPTION ONE: I very strongly agree with the statement.

OPTION TWO: I somewhat agree with the statement.

OPTION THREE: I neither agree nor disagree with the statement.

OPTION FOUR: I somewhat disagree with the statement.

OPTION FIVE: I strongly disagree with the statement.

Option four for me. Though I'll say at the outset that the goal in most debate/discussion isn't really reaching the truth (lots of philosophical problems arise around truth and how to recognize it) so much as it's reaching agreement among the disputants.

It seems to me that ideally, the goal in both discussion and debate should be persuasion. Otherwise its just wanking-off.

The problem with debate is that emotionally, it's adversarial. Agreeing with one's opponent somehow turns into a defeat. People really hate to feel like they are grovelling, especially before people that they really don't like. So people will just harden in their position and will be even less likely to budge from it, no matter how good the opposing arguments might be. Anger replaces consensus.

I much prefer a style of rhetoric in which people simply state what their own position is (however tentative that position might be) and some of their reasons for holding it -- 1, 2, 3, 4... etc., as persuasively as they can. Insults, put-downs and caricatures are always counter-productive.

The goal shouldn't be to shred the other person or their deepest concerns, but rather to convince them that your own position is a good one that might better address those concerns. Don't put the other person in a position where they fear losing face by agreeing with you.