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Impersonating Christ

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, from a Baha'i point of view, but I think there is enough in the NT to make a very good case that Jesus was something greater than any other prophet. But what can we expect, Christians wrote the stories.

Well luckily we have the Quran and the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah to confirm who Jesus the Christ was and still is.

And with all these 3 Messages, it has been confirmed the Writings have come from the Messengers.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Well luckily we have the Quran and the Writings of the Bab and Baha'u'llah to confirm who Jesus the Christ was and still is.

And with all these 3 Messages, it has been confirmed the Writings have come from the Messengers.

Regards Tony
I think there is enough ambiguity to give Jews good reason to doubt Jesus was their Messiah. Then for Christians, they have good reasons to doubt Islam and the Baha'i Faith. So for sure, the Baha'i writings say that there has been a succession of manifestations sent by God. And the Baha'is Faith gives us an important reason as to why God had to send Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... And that is to correct the errors in Christian doctrine. Which include that Jesus is God. Others, even the Protestants "corrected" the doctrines that they thought were errors made by the Catholic Church... Like original sin and the immaculate conception of Mary. But they kept the doctrine of the Trinity, and that's one of the main ones that Islam and the Baha'i Faith says is wrong.

But the Baha'i Faith also does away with Satan as real spirit being. And that's why I mentioned the Christian belief in Satan/Lucifer. If the Baha'is are correct, then Christians took Bible verses and concocted a story about Lucifer to fill out the story about Satan. And maybe borrowing some concepts from other religions of the time and added them in to their beliefs about Satan. Here's a Baha'i quote about Satan...
God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77​
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think there is enough ambiguity to give Jews good reason to doubt Jesus was their Messiah. Then for Christians, they have good reasons to doubt Islam and the Baha'i Faith. So for sure, the Baha'i writings say that there has been a succession of manifestations sent by God. And the Baha'is Faith gives us an important reason as to why God had to send Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... And that is to correct the errors in Christian doctrine. Which include that Jesus is God. Others, even the Protestants "corrected" the doctrines that they thought were errors made by the Catholic Church... Like original sin and the immaculate conception of Mary. But they kept the doctrine of the Trinity, and that's one of the main ones that Islam and the Baha'i Faith says is wrong.

But the Baha'i Faith also does away with Satan as real spirit being. And that's why I mentioned the Christian belief in Satan/Lucifer. If the Baha'is are correct, then Christians took Bible verses and concocted a story about Lucifer to fill out the story about Satan. And maybe borrowing some concepts from other religions of the time and added them in to their beliefs about Satan. Here's a Baha'i quote about Satan...
God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77​

So humanity still faces free will choices, that is all you are actually pointing out CG.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
So humanity still faces free will choices, that is all you are actually pointing out CG.

Regards Tony
Yes, people are given choices. One religion says one thing, another something else. Different sects within a religion have different beliefs and doctrines. A person can learn about these different religious beliefs and decide which one they believe is true. Someone else can decide on a completely different one that contradicts several beliefs of the religion the other person chose. But which person chose the correct and true religion? Both? Neither? Or one of them chose the truth and the other chose a false religion?

I would think that a Baha'i would believe that any person that chooses Christianity is being misled. What they are told is not the truth. Is Jesus God? Is Satan real? Is Jesus the one that is going to return or is it Baha'u'llah coming in the Spirit of Christ? Yes, there are choices to be made. How does a person make the correct choice? And even if they believe they did, if one chose Christianity and one chose the Baha'i Faith, one or both are wrong.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Impersonating Christ.

Human man a theist. What is Christ?

Spirit gases that arose out of earth became clear in space. Law of heavens of planet earth.

Okay. Where did you get CH gases from.

A maths numbered calculus. Angles...notice angle angel....I put CH values to design of rock mass. Converted it leaving no mass just CH.

Oh so CH means not God earth anymore.

Yes.

How men of science impersonated they invented CH gas.

Yet using burning Satanism the whole time.

Law made it clear naturally not using burning.

Satan didn't invent CH rist by man's thesis the warning..
Christ was never inside any container.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Status historic.

Natural two human parents. Owned same human DNA anywhere on earth said science study of human genesis.

Not about any Theist baby man son of our human father.

Told...one day you'll realise about our fathers life truth from life's sacrifice attack.

No man is God. Father human... ours special as human men own human life's procreation.

Man Theist I'm special ignores he was baby man as first talking science theism...was talking maths... was theorising about states he wasn't. Body types in mass. Star mass one such thesis.

Does not recognise mutual terms holy father holy mother mutual equal life in his thoughts. Proves by what he says he hadn't.

Proven right now today.

Instead you used man's maths scientific theories against us claiming it a message. Whilst Idolating your own man life. Basic advice.

Reasoned by human agreed Jesus the baby life returned in man's DNA.... yet man adult life was then sacrificed had a special message.

He personally didn't. The message was notified.

His human mother did however own importance he ignores. Her claim is I'm not nothing. I'm not a space womb. I'm not maths numbers reactions or stories. I was real.

It's why you got life changed by star. You ignore.

Created creation all things existed before humans. Past.

No argument. Not science. Not maths. All thing's existed created already. As a humans thought wisdom.

If your use numbers real 1 to whatever number would state at number such and such is a human.

You bandy the use number 1 wherever you want to put it in theory.

A man's message. My scientific fake space womb zero maths about stars hurt sacrificed my life. Even when Jesus hadn't existed the star attacked earth.

Dinosaurs that proof.

Bible readers. Do you use earths natural planet history biology type in the bible?

No.

Dinosaurs roamed the earth. Died twice. Ice present after.

After wandering star hit earth.

Stars advice says it destroys life.

Men claim the star holy in scientific theisms. Which you are not evoking as pre advice. I think before I write.

Did the Jesus baby life presence claim as star wandered by earth?

Yes. Holy star.

What about man of science baby adult man. Life sacrificed. Did your star thesis wander past earth?

No. Temple pyramid science made it cross and hit earth.

Okay Mr Muslim man. Did the star hit your Muslim community as a new fall?

No. But I said be warned about Jesus history as it's not holy. Holy for us in our nation not hit. Like Russia proves.

Why?

As Muslim men of science mind gained changed then wanted to rebuild old temple technology. It had been forbidden in Jesus agreements.

Who got hurt sacrificed in the history Baha'i recorded advice?

We know English European man had. As queen England was termed family Inheritor of human blood line hurt.

Why?

As they went to war to stop Muslim takeover control of temple science. Jeru in Salem where the circuit turned. Meaning of Jeru.

We knew old pyramid science heavens above attack had cooled. As DNA baby life had healed returned in the area vicinity..

Ground Vista bared showed attack eruptions mass changes in vicinity Jerusalem. Of past nuclear event.

Humans were born DNA mutated in that area for a long time before.

So is Baha'i message important?

Only to humans today reminding us about sciences of men in evil history.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
“Lucifer got into fatal trouble as recorded in the book of Isaiah, where he asserts that he will “be like the most High”, and take His Throne. We read in the book of Job where God actually allows Satan to accuse Him, and seems to treat the Devil on a near-equal peer level. But haven’t you ever thought it odd that Lucifer had no “new plan” to present? The best he could do is to want to steal what Someone else had already created.”
Isaiah 14 is about the King of Tyre, not Satan.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
InChrist said:
Do you think Jesus was incapable of confronting and making Himself known to Saul in his persecution of the early Christians and turning Paul’s life around to use him as a vessel to spread the gospel?
But (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah never did it* and or never needed* to do it, it transpires:
  1. He never died a cursed death on the Cross*, in the first place, please
  2. and ,therefore, never rose from the dead*
  3. He was never a Hellenist (dying, rising, atoning, ascending) deity
  4. He never needed Saul to fake a vision for him,
  5. Saul aka Paul did fake the vision on his own, continuing his persecution of Jesus and his followers under a new strategy of character assassination of Jesus,
  6. that is opposing Jesus' ways and his teachings
  7. and this merits to name Saul/Paul a seed of AntiChrist, one gets to know, please
Right?

Regards
____________
* to prove otherwise kindly quote directly from Jesus/Yeshua in the first person, in
an unambiguous, unequivocal and straightforward manner, please, right?

Anybody else please.

Regards
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Isaiah 14 is about the King of Tyre, not Satan.
I’d say it’s about the King of Babylon (verse 4) in one respect, but I also think it’s a reference to satan. Oftentimes, the scriptures have double application. The passage uses language that is not applicable to a human king, such as;
How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!”

Isaiah 14:12
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I’d say it’s about the King of Babylon (verse 4) in one respect, but I also think it’s a reference to satan. Oftentimes, the scriptures have double application. The passage uses language that is not applicable to a human king, such as;
How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!”

Isaiah 14:12
Why wouldn't that apply to a human king? Remember that the language is poetic, not literal.

The name Lucifer actually comes into English from the Latin and means "light bringer." It refers to the planet Venus, the morning star. In Christianity, Lucifer is considered the same person as Satan. But Jews read this verse and see it applying to a very earthly king who had been a beacon of truth and goodness at one time, but had fallen from that.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Why wouldn't that apply to a human king? Remember that the language is poetic, not literal.
I don’t think ALL the language of the scriptures is intended to be poetic, rather than literal. In this case, a human king did not fall from heaven, nor was called Lucifer, son of the morning.

Another example is in Ezekiel 28:11-19, where is speaks about the King of Tyre, but in no sense could an earthly king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.”
Yet, these descriptions accurately apply to Lucifer.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I think ALL the language of the scriptures is intended to be poetic, rather than literal. In this case, a human king did not fallen from heaven, nor was called Lucifer, son of the morning.

Another example is in Ezekiel 28:11-19, where is speaks about the King of Tyre, but in no sense could an earthly king claim to be “in Eden” or to be “the anointed cherub” or to be “on the holy mountain of God.”
Yet, these descriptions accurately apply to Lucifer.
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Fall from heaven merely means to fall from a very high moral status. And yes, the King of Tyre was called Light bringer/morning star as a nickname.

It is not wise to assume that Lucifer is some kind of name. It merely is latin and refers to the planet venus. It is clearly a kind of nick name that reflects the former moral status of teh king.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Fall from heaven merely means to fall from a very high moral status. And yes, the King of Tyre was called Light bringer/morning star as a nickname.

It is not wise to assume that Lucifer is some kind of name. It merely is latin and refers to the planet venus. It is clearly a kind of nick name that reflects the former moral status of teh king.

I don’t think I am assuming because
Jesus uses some similar wording as a clear reference to satan in Luke 10:18: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” So I think link between Satan and Lucifer seems to be supported by Satan’s fall from heaven, mentioned by Jesus. Also, Satan’s temptation of Eve that suggested she could be like God in Genesis 3:5, then Satan’s work as a destroyer in Job 1:12-19; 2:7 and Satan’s masquerading as an “angel of light” 2 Corinthians 11:14.

I realize that you don’t accept the words of Jesus or NT references. But since I do, we’ll probably have to agree that we disagree and see the subject differently.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I don’t think I am assuming because
Jesus uses some similar wording as a clear reference to satan in Luke 10:18: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” So I think link between Satan and Lucifer seems to be supported by Satan’s fall from heaven, mentioned by Jesus. Also, Satan’s temptation of Eve that suggested she could be like God in Genesis 3:5, then Satan’s work as a destroyer in Job 1:12-19; 2:7 and Satan’s masquerading as an “angel of light” 2 Corinthians 11:14.

I realize that you don’t accept the words of Jesus or NT references. But since I do, we’ll probably have to agree that we disagree and see the subject differently.
Thank you. I am fine with disagreeing agreeably as well.

So you think that lightning is the same thing as the planet venus?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Thank you. I am fine with disagreeing agreeably as well.

So you think that lightning is the same thing as the planet venus?
No, I don’t think lightning is the same thing as the planet Venus. I think the connection is simply “light”. Venus was called morning star (though a planet) because it consistently appears more brightly than other planets. Lucifer, means light bearer and I believe this creature was an angelic being of light before his prideful rebellion against the Creator and subsequent fall into darkness and evil. Even Jesus Christ is called the Bright and Morning Star (2 Peter 1:19; Revelation 22:16) and the Light of the world ( John 8:12, 8:5; Matthew 5:14). That doesn’t mean I think Jesus is at all the same as satan or the planet Venus. Again, just different uses, expressions and/or representations of light. In the case of Lucifer, his light became dark.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, I don’t think lightning is the same thing as the planet Venus. I think the connection is simply “light”. Venus was called morning star (though a planet) because it consistently appears more brightly than other planets. Lucifer, means light bearer and I believe this creature was an angelic being of light before his prideful rebellion against the Creator and subsequent fall into darkness and evil. Even Jesus Christ is called the Bright and Morning Star (2 Peter 1:19; Revelation 22:16) and the Light of the world ( John 8:12, 8:5; Matthew 5:14). That doesn’t mean I think Jesus is at all the same as satan or the planet Venus. Again, just different uses, expressions and/or representations of light. In the case of Lucifer, his light became dark.
Saying both are light is just not a strong enough connection.

Light is OFTEN used as a metaphor for truth. Sometimes people who embody the truth are referred to as light as well. That's where the commonality ends.
 

AdamjEdgar

Active Member
There are three groups that will preach:
  1. The two witnesses (Rev 11)
  2. the 144,000 (Rev 7)
  3. Angels (Rev. 14:5-6)

You do know the evidence points to the two witnesses as being the Old and New Testaments of the Christian Bible right? (Officially compiled in mid 1500"s).

I suppose the argument could be made they are Wycliffe(labelled a heretic and his bones burned after his death from a stroke. My understanding is that burning the bones were thought to prevent him from being resurrected at the second coming) and Tyndale (who was strangled and burned at the stake for his heresy)

Anyway, the point is, the two witnesses of the bible have been witnessing to us for more than 500 years.

The following might also be of interest
Censorship of the Bible - Wikipedia
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You do know the evidence points to the two witnesses as being the Old and New Testaments of the Christian Bible right? (Officially compiled in mid 1500"s).

I suppose the argument could be made they are Wycliffe(labelled a heretic and his bones burned after his death from a stroke. My understanding is that burning the bones were thought to prevent him from being resurrected at the second coming) and Tyndale (who was strangled and burned at the stake for his heresy)

Anyway, the point is, the two witnesses of the bible have been witnessing to us for more than 500 years.

The following might also be of interest
Censorship of the Bible - Wikipedia
I wouldn't agree with that position.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
At one time, I read that the Greek prefix ”Anti” not only means ”opposed to”, but also ”in place of”. This makes sense in light of the scriptures which show the antichrist will come in opposition to the real Christ, but also pretending to be Christ.
Who will be able to tell the difference?


If Satan Is As Great As He Thinks He Is, Then Why Does He Pretend To Be Jesus In The Time Of Jacob’s Trouble?


“Lucifer got into fatal trouble as recorded in the book of Isaiah, where he asserts that he will “be like the most High”, and take His Throne. We read in the book of Job where God actually allows Satan to accuse Him, and seems to treat the Devil on a near-equal peer level. But haven’t you ever thought it odd that Lucifer had no “new plan” to present? The best he could do is to want to steal what Someone else had already created.”
There is more than one christ because of John 21:15 and colossians 3:11. Anyone taking the name in vain would be the antichrist.

God doesn't play favorites
 
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