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Impeachment and Trump's "monkey see-monkey do" defense

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
As the impeachment hearings grind on, Trump has presented his strongest defense so far: the "monkey see-monkey do" argument, which goes something like this:
  • Major premise: A black did it and got away with it.
  • Minor premise: What a black can do, a monkey can do.
  • Conclusion: A monkey cannot be impeached.
  • Quod est demonstrandum.
On December 12, 2019, General Counsel, Mark R. Paoletta, for the White House's Office of Manage and Budget (OMB) responded to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) inquiry which sought an explanation of the White House hold on funds appropriated specifically for Ukraine. Subsequently, on January 16, 2020, GAO issued a Decision Memorandum (attached below) which stated, in part, that:
  • "In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
    Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.
    "
On January 20th, 2020, Trump tweeted:

Screenshot_2020-01-25 (3).png


Regarding the aid withheld by the Obama Administration:

FACT CHECK: President Trump’s False Claim Equating His Illegal Ukraine Aid Freeze With President Obama’s Lawful, Legitimate Pauses On Aid | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

  • Patently false equivalence between Trump’s misconduct and President Obama’s actions.
    • Unlike Trump’s Ukraine aid freeze, which was for personal, political purposes and which the Government Accountability Office found was illegal, all of the Obama administration’s pauses of foreign aid cited by Trump were:
      • 1. Done consistent with authority provided by Congress, which has the exclusive power of the purse;
      • 2. Made in consultation with Congress and not in secret; and
      • 3. To promote important, bipartisan U.S. national interests, not personal interests.
  • Background on the Obama administration examples cited by President Trump and his defenders:
    • Ukraine: When the Obama administration threatened to withhold a $1 billion loan guarantee to Ukraine in exchange for legitimate anti-corruption reforms, it was doing so as part of a congressionally supported, coordinated, and international effort along with our partners in the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. Furthermore, this threat to withhold aid did not usurp Congress’s appropriations power because Congress had not required the administration to use these funds for this purpose.
    • Pakistan: When the Obama administration publicly announced it would suspend $800 million in aid to Pakistan following its murder of a journalist and its failure to take action against militant networks conducting attacks against U.S. forces, it did so pursuant to clear statutory authority granted by Congress. Specifically, in Section 1220(b)(2) of the 2011 National Defense Authorization Act, Congress made aid to Pakistan contingent on promoting human rights, fundamental freedoms, and respect for legitimate civilian authority.
    • Colombia: Congress, not the Obama administration, imposed conditions on aid to Colombia pursuant to clear statutory authority. Under Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, Congress has conditioned a portion of aid to Colombia on progress on human rights and rule of law issues for nearly two decades.
    • Philippines: When the Obama administration did not approve an additional Millennium Challenge Corporation Compact for the Philippines, it did so because President Duterte’s extrajudicial killings as part of his so called “drug war” undercut the Philippines’ eligibility for this aid under the Millennium Challenge Act of 2003, as amended. Congress was briefed on the decision-making process to withhold this aid from the Philippines.
    • Egypt: When the Obama administration withheld a portion of U.S. aid to Egypt, it did so because the Egyptian regime’s brutal crackdown on and killings of political opponents raised serious questions about compliance with multiple, longstanding, bipartisan human rights conditions imposed on foreign aid generally and specifically on aid to Egypt by Congress (including Section 7041 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act).
    • Honduras: The Obama administration at times withheld aid from Honduras based on various statutory conditions – for example, Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act – related to human rights, rule of law, resolution of commercial disputes involving U.S. companies, and similar policy goals.
    • Mexico: When the Obama administration withheld aid to Mexico, it did so because of human rights conditions imposed by Congress on a portion of aid to Mexico pursuant to Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
As the impeachment hearings grind on, Trump has presented his strongest defense so far: the "monkey see-monkey do" argument, which goes something like this:
  • Major premise: A black did it and got away with it.
  • Minor premise: What a black can do, a monkey can do.
  • Conclusion: A monkey cannot be impeached.
  • Quod est demonstrandum.
I like this one, you are very inventive to create something like this yourself
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
I'm surprised Trump didn't call him "crying Adam" he has shown true restraint and should be commended.

Will you be able to accept the outcome of this trial no matter how it goes?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
As the impeachment hearings grind on, Trump has presented his strongest defense so far: the "monkey see-monkey do" argument, which goes something like this:
  • Major premise: A black did it and got away with it.
  • Minor premise: What a black can do, a monkey can do.
  • Conclusion: A monkey cannot be impeached.
  • Quod est demonstrandum.
On December 12, 2019, General Counsel, Mark R. Paoletta, for the White House's Office of Manage and Budget (OMB) responded to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) inquiry which sought an explanation of the White House hold on funds appropriated specifically for Ukraine. Subsequently, on January 16, 2020, GAO issued a Decision Memorandum (attached below) which stated, in part, that:
  • "In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
    Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.
    "
On January 20th, 2020, Trump tweeted:

View attachment 36521

Regarding the aid withheld by the Obama Administration:

FACT CHECK: President Trump’s False Claim Equating His Illegal Ukraine Aid Freeze With President Obama’s Lawful, Legitimate Pauses On Aid | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

  • Patently false equivalence between Trump’s misconduct and President Obama’s actions.
    • Unlike Trump’s Ukraine aid freeze, which was for personal, political purposes and which the Government Accountability Office found was illegal, all of the Obama administration’s pauses of foreign aid cited by Trump were:
      • 1. Done consistent with authority provided by Congress, which has the exclusive power of the purse;
      • 2. Made in consultation with Congress and not in secret; and
      • 3. To promote important, bipartisan U.S. national interests, not personal interests.
  • Background on the Obama administration examples cited by President Trump and his defenders:
    • Ukraine: When the Obama administration threatened to withhold a $1 billion loan guarantee to Ukraine in exchange for legitimate anti-corruption reforms, it was doing so as part of a congressionally supported, coordinated, and international effort along with our partners in the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. Furthermore, this threat to withhold aid did not usurp Congress’s appropriations power because Congress had not required the administration to use these funds for this purpose.
    • Pakistan: When the Obama administration publicly announced it would suspend $800 million in aid to Pakistan following its murder of a journalist and its failure to take action against militant networks conducting attacks against U.S. forces, it did so pursuant to clear statutory authority granted by Congress. Specifically, in Section 1220(b)(2) of the 2011 National Defense Authorization Act, Congress made aid to Pakistan contingent on promoting human rights, fundamental freedoms, and respect for legitimate civilian authority.
    • Colombia: Congress, not the Obama administration, imposed conditions on aid to Colombia pursuant to clear statutory authority. Under Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, Congress has conditioned a portion of aid to Colombia on progress on human rights and rule of law issues for nearly two decades.
    • Philippines: When the Obama administration did not approve an additional Millennium Challenge Corporation Compact for the Philippines, it did so because President Duterte’s extrajudicial killings as part of his so called “drug war” undercut the Philippines’ eligibility for this aid under the Millennium Challenge Act of 2003, as amended. Congress was briefed on the decision-making process to withhold this aid from the Philippines.
    • Egypt: When the Obama administration withheld a portion of U.S. aid to Egypt, it did so because the Egyptian regime’s brutal crackdown on and killings of political opponents raised serious questions about compliance with multiple, longstanding, bipartisan human rights conditions imposed on foreign aid generally and specifically on aid to Egypt by Congress (including Section 7041 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act).
    • Honduras: The Obama administration at times withheld aid from Honduras based on various statutory conditions – for example, Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act – related to human rights, rule of law, resolution of commercial disputes involving U.S. companies, and similar policy goals.
    • Mexico: When the Obama administration withheld aid to Mexico, it did so because of human rights conditions imposed by Congress on a portion of aid to Mexico pursuant to Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act.

Trump is incredibly stupid..
 

Shad

Veteran Member
As the impeachment hearings grind on, Trump has presented his strongest defense so far: the "monkey see-monkey do" argument, which goes something like this:
  • Major premise: A black did it and got away with it.
  • Minor premise: What a black can do, a monkey can do.
  • Conclusion: A monkey cannot be impeached.
  • Quod est demonstrandum.
On December 12, 2019, General Counsel, Mark R. Paoletta, for the White House's Office of Manage and Budget (OMB) responded to a Government Accountability Office (GAO) inquiry which sought an explanation of the White House hold on funds appropriated specifically for Ukraine. Subsequently, on January 16, 2020, GAO issued a Decision Memorandum (attached below) which stated, in part, that:
  • "In the summer of 2019, the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) withheld from obligation funds appropriated to the Department of Defense (DOD) for security assistance to Ukraine. In order to withhold the funds, OMB issued a series of nine apportionment schedules with footnotes that made all unobligated balances unavailable for obligation.
    Faithful execution of the law does not permit the President to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA.
    "
On January 20th, 2020, Trump tweeted:

View attachment 36521

Regarding the aid withheld by the Obama Administration:

FACT CHECK: President Trump’s False Claim Equating His Illegal Ukraine Aid Freeze With President Obama’s Lawful, Legitimate Pauses On Aid | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

  • Patently false equivalence between Trump’s misconduct and President Obama’s actions.
    • Unlike Trump’s Ukraine aid freeze, which was for personal, political purposes and which the Government Accountability Office found was illegal, all of the Obama administration’s pauses of foreign aid cited by Trump were:
      • 1. Done consistent with authority provided by Congress, which has the exclusive power of the purse;
      • 2. Made in consultation with Congress and not in secret; and
      • 3. To promote important, bipartisan U.S. national interests, not personal interests.
  • Background on the Obama administration examples cited by President Trump and his defenders:
    • Ukraine: When the Obama administration threatened to withhold a $1 billion loan guarantee to Ukraine in exchange for legitimate anti-corruption reforms, it was doing so as part of a congressionally supported, coordinated, and international effort along with our partners in the European Union and the International Monetary Fund. Furthermore, this threat to withhold aid did not usurp Congress’s appropriations power because Congress had not required the administration to use these funds for this purpose.
    • Pakistan: When the Obama administration publicly announced it would suspend $800 million in aid to Pakistan following its murder of a journalist and its failure to take action against militant networks conducting attacks against U.S. forces, it did so pursuant to clear statutory authority granted by Congress. Specifically, in Section 1220(b)(2) of the 2011 National Defense Authorization Act, Congress made aid to Pakistan contingent on promoting human rights, fundamental freedoms, and respect for legitimate civilian authority.
    • Colombia: Congress, not the Obama administration, imposed conditions on aid to Colombia pursuant to clear statutory authority. Under Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, Congress has conditioned a portion of aid to Colombia on progress on human rights and rule of law issues for nearly two decades.
    • Philippines: When the Obama administration did not approve an additional Millennium Challenge Corporation Compact for the Philippines, it did so because President Duterte’s extrajudicial killings as part of his so called “drug war” undercut the Philippines’ eligibility for this aid under the Millennium Challenge Act of 2003, as amended. Congress was briefed on the decision-making process to withhold this aid from the Philippines.
    • Egypt: When the Obama administration withheld a portion of U.S. aid to Egypt, it did so because the Egyptian regime’s brutal crackdown on and killings of political opponents raised serious questions about compliance with multiple, longstanding, bipartisan human rights conditions imposed on foreign aid generally and specifically on aid to Egypt by Congress (including Section 7041 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act).
    • Honduras: The Obama administration at times withheld aid from Honduras based on various statutory conditions – for example, Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act – related to human rights, rule of law, resolution of commercial disputes involving U.S. companies, and similar policy goals.
    • Mexico: When the Obama administration withheld aid to Mexico, it did so because of human rights conditions imposed by Congress on a portion of aid to Mexico pursuant to Section 7045 of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act.

That is called establishing selective bias and application of standards.

Your little article is treating it's opinion as fact. Yawn. It ignore Dems using the GAO ruling which Obama would have violated according to the Dems. Your article is also short on sources. Try again.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yep. He's been impeached. Done Deal. It'll annoy him till the day he dies. Narcissists are funny that way.

View attachment 36525
When a Japanese hates you and wants to hurt you, he first gives you everything; material stuff, making you attached and dependant to luxury

Then slowly he takes everything away from you.

Hypothetically: God exists and wanted to kill the ego of Trump

This could do the trick. Otherwise he might go insane (being annoyed 24/7 is not healthy)
 
Last edited:

tytlyf

Not Religious
There was no defense, just the same recycled conspiracy theories and talking points which work on certain Americans. None of his legal team could defend Trump against the evidence presented.
 
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