IMO, if you think we are the only existing life in the universe,,,,, you're pretty naive.

[We Never Know]

Take time to watch this. It puts into perspective how we are just a speck on earth and how earth is a much much smaller speck in our galaxy and how our galaxy is a much much smaller speck in the universe. It's pretty cool.

And being the universe is over 13 billion years old, 9 billion years older than earth, if you think we are the only existing life in the universe,,,,, you're pretty naive.

 

[Eyes to See]

I read somewhere once a figure, and if I recall it was that it would take a billion billion billion years for a single protein to fold onto itself correctly.

A billion billion billion is a staggeringly large number. A billion billion billion is 10^27 (to the power of 27, or 10 followed by 27 zeros. An octillion).

That means that, not if there were some primordial soup the size of the earth, rather the size of the universe, our universe still isn't anywhere near old enough for a single protein to have folded upon itself by accident to the correct shape.

I was checking references and did find it. I did remember correctly, here it is:

Even this process of protein folding is significant. In 1996, scientists around the world, “armed with their best computer programs, competed to solve one of the most complex problems in biology: how a single protein, made from a long string of amino acids, folds itself into the intricate shape that determines the role it plays in life. . . Scientists have estimated that for an average-sized protein, made from 100 amino acids, solving the folding problem by trying every possibility would take 10^27 (a billion billion billion) years.”—The New York Times.

If you really understood the mathematical improbability for that to happen, and then realize that the human body has about 50,000 proteins you see how utterly absurd the notion is that life could have arisen by chance one time by accident in the extremely short life span on our 13 billion year-old universe, let alone many other times.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you really understood the mathematical improbability for that to happen, and then realize that the human body has about 50,000 proteins you see how utterly absurd the notion is that life could have arisen by chance one time by accident in the extremely short life span on our 13 billion year-old universe, let alone many other times.

Amd yet stanger things have happened.

 

[Eyes to See]

Amd yet stanger things have happened.

Yes such as irreducible complexity. That is where several parts of a whole need to originate at the exact same place and time in order for the whole to function properly. Such as a human cell. The DNA, RNA, and the proteins that it needs to both live and reproduce itself. Talking about the proteins is making light of the process to an extreme degree so extreme it would be foolish to think that was even a little part of what is needed for a human cell to pop into existence and continue life by reproducing itself.

The information contained just in the DNA of the human cell is eye-opening. Using the digital code letters of A G C and T, how big a book would all of these letters arranged in order fill? It has been said that the human genome is made up of about three billion base pairs, or rungs on the DNA ladder.

That would mean that if you filled a set of encyclopedias with the information stored in the human genome it would fill 248 thousand-page long encyclopedias.

If I were to try and type that out it would take me 80 years working 10 hours a day without a break.

It gets more mind-boggling when you understand that DNA can be read both forward and backward and seems to have information coded in both ways. And what used to be thought to be "junk DNA" is actually full of useful information.

If you could blow up a cell and look at what was going on inside a cell it would blow the mind at the complexity of this factory. In fact no human factory has such complex mechanisms at work in the real world. Human factories are rudimentary and crude by comparison.

Here is a video that shows the process of transcription in DNA and the role genes and RNA have in it. It is quite fascinating to see this marvel of design at work at such a microscopic level.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes such as irreducible complexity. That is where several parts of a whole need to originate at the exact same place and time in order for the whole to function properly. Such as a human cell. The DNA, RNA, and the proteins that it needs to both live and reproduce itself. Talking about the proteins is making light of the process to an extreme degree so extreme it would be foolish to think that was even a little part of what is needed for a human cell to pop into existence and continue life by reproducing itself.

The information contained just in the DNA of the human cell is eye-opening. Using the digital code letters of A G C and T, how big a book would all of these letters arranged in order fill? It has been said that the human genome is made up of about three billion base pairs, or rungs on the DNA ladder.

That would mean that if you filled a set of encyclopedias with the information stored in the human genome it would fill 248 thousand-page long encyclopedias.

If I were to try and type that out it would take me 80 years working 10 hours a day without a break.

It gets more mind-boggling when you understand that DNA can be read both forward and backward and seems to have information coded in both ways. And what used to be thought to be "junk DNA" is actually full of useful information.

If you could blow up a cell and look at what was going on inside a cell it would blow the mind at the complexity of this factory. In fact no human factory has such complex mechanisms at work in the real world. Human factories are rudimentary and crude by comparison.

Here is a video that shows the process of transcription in DNA and the role genes and RNA have in it. It is quite fascinating to see this marvel of design at work at such a microscopic level.

I am aware of all that. It doesn't demonstrate there must be intelligent life out there somewhere else. It seems like that should be there, but truly we dont know.

 

[We Never Know]

I read somewhere once a figure, and if I recall it was that it would take a billion billion billion years for a single protein to fold onto itself correctly.

A billion billion billion is a staggeringly large number. A billion billion billion is 10^27 (to the power of 27, or 10 followed by 27 zeros. An octillion).

That means that, not if there were some primordial soup the size of the earth, rather the size of the universe, our universe still isn't anywhere near old enough for a single protein to have folded upon itself by accident to the correct shape.

I was checking references and did find it. I did remember correctly, here it is:



If you really understood the mathematical improbability for that to happen, and then realize that the human body has about 50,000 proteins you see how utterly absurd the notion is that life could have arisen by chance one time by accident in the extremely short life span on our 13 billion year-old universe, let alone many other times.

And yet here we are after only 4 billion years of evolution. We are evidence it doesn't take a billion billion billion years

 

[We Never Know]

Yes such as irreducible complexity. That is where several parts of a whole need to originate at the exact same place and time in order for the whole to function properly. Such as a human cell. The DNA, RNA, and the proteins that it needs to both live and reproduce itself. Talking about the proteins is making light of the process to an extreme degree so extreme it would be foolish to think that was even a little part of what is needed for a human cell to pop into existence and continue life by reproducing itself.

The information contained just in the DNA of the human cell is eye-opening. Using the digital code letters of A G C and T, how big a book would all of these letters arranged in order fill? It has been said that the human genome is made up of about three billion base pairs, or rungs on the DNA ladder.

That would mean that if you filled a set of encyclopedias with the information stored in the human genome it would fill 248 thousand-page long encyclopedias.

If I were to try and type that out it would take me 80 years working 10 hours a day without a break.

It gets more mind-boggling when you understand that DNA can be read both forward and backward and seems to have information coded in both ways. And what used to be thought to be "junk DNA" is actually full of useful information.

If you could blow up a cell and look at what was going on inside a cell it would blow the mind at the complexity of this factory. In fact no human factory has such complex mechanisms at work in the real world. Human factories are rudimentary and crude by comparison.

Here is a video that shows the process of transcription in DNA and the role genes and RNA have in it. It is quite fascinating to see this marvel of design at work at such a microscopic level.

I watched a video once of a human being formed in the womb. It had how the cells come together to make the heart and sync their rythm together so they could beat in rhythm, any cell beating out of rhythm was rejected. I've never been able to find that video again but it was cool as hell.

 

[Eyes to See]

And yet here we are after only 4 billion years evolution. We ate evidence it doesn't take a billion billion billion years

Yeah, that was just for 1 basic protein. Humans have around 50,000.

Theoretical physicists say that if a thing has a probability of happening higher than 10^20 it is impossible. Impossibility after impossibility time after time.

My ideas on this although do lead me to the logical conclusion that it was no mere coincidence, that is Chance is not my determining factor, and I don't put faith in blind Chance as my god. I'm just stating that just saying the universe is really big shows that there must be life elsewhere, and if you don't believe otherwise you are naive, is wrong.

I think the study of biology shows us that not only were we designed, but that it is foolhardy to think that life could just pop up against impossible odds all over the place.

But that also does mean that without a doubt life exists elsewhere than earth. Earth is not the origin of life. And that life exists in other realms of existence other than just the physical that we can see.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I think 2MASS-J0523-1403 is really Níðavellir (before the Dwarves installed the rings).

We can form a hypothesis based on probabilities, but until we have objective evidence of life elsewhere, it cannot be said we are not the only life in the universe any more truthfully than it can be said God exists or that I am the only being in the universe.

 

[HonestJoe]

I read somewhere once a figure, and if I recall it was that it would take a billion billion billion years for a single protein to fold onto itself correctly.

That isn't the time for it to happen in nature, it's the time for computers to work it out using the pure brute force method of trying every single possibility. That doesn't necessarily imply any limitation of the actual process, only limitations in our understanding or it and the capability of the computers (back in 1996 at that). Also, that is about a single effort. There are billions of planets which have existed for billions of years so the real world "attempts to solve the problem" could be happening in multiple places all the time.

Primary reference (not an indirect quote): Designing Life: Proteins 1, Computer 0

 

[`mud]

We are one of millions of viruses in the Cosmos...
ONE amongst millions of other life forms on Earth alone.
And....every thing dies...ahh...comes eternity,
inside the Cosmos. A vast bite of reality there.

 

[Polymath257]

I read somewhere once a figure, and if I recall it was that it would take a billion billion billion years for a single protein to fold onto itself correctly.

A billion billion billion is a staggeringly large number. A billion billion billion is 10^27 (to the power of 27, or 10 followed by 27 zeros. An octillion).

That means that, not if there were some primordial soup the size of the earth, rather the size of the universe, our universe still isn't anywhere near old enough for a single protein to have folded upon itself by accident to the correct shape.

I was checking references and did find it. I did remember correctly, here it is:



If you really understood the mathematical improbability for that to happen, and then realize that the human body has about 50,000 proteins you see how utterly absurd the notion is that life could have arisen by chance one time by accident in the extremely short life span on our 13 billion year-old universe, let alone many other times.

All this shows is that proteins do NOT test every possible configuration. when they fold. And they manage to fold very quickly (milliseconds). What happens is that small, partial foldings are 'tried' and then built upon. The natural attraction of the molecules to water is what drives the process.

This is the problem with many probability calculations involving life. They *assume* things have to be done one way and, in fact, what happens is nothing like the assumptions.

The laws of physics are NOT random, which invalidates any calculation of the probability based on random processes.


As to the OP: There are two conflicting pieces of information. One is the sheer size of the universe and how minute we are in it. We also know that life started quite quickly on the early Earth. So that leads to the idea that life should be pretty common in the universe.

On the other hand, try as we might, we have found NO actual evidence of other intelligent life in the universe. No stray radio messages, no TV signals, nothing. This suggests a very empty universe.

So the question is how to reconcile those two pieces of information. And, at this stage, we simply don't know. We have only investigated a very small part of the universe in any detail. Maybe advanced technologies don't produce as much noise for us to detect. Maybe life is common, but intelligent life is rare. Maybe 'intelligent' life ends up destroying itself 'quickly' (less than 10,000 years of technology would be pretty undetectable).

 

[Polymath257]

Yeah, that was just for 1 basic protein. Humans have around 50,000.

Theoretical physicists say that if a thing has a probability of happening higher than 10^20 it is impossible. Impossibility after impossibility time after time.

Garbage. They say no such thing.

The probability that all the molecules in the air in your room are in *precisely* the positions that they are is far, far, far less that 1 in 10^20. But it happens. And in the next instant, an equally improbable event takes place.

My ideas on this although do lead me to the logical conclusion that it was no mere coincidence, that is Chance is not my determining factor, and I don't put faith in blind Chance as my god. I'm just stating that just saying the universe is really big shows that there must be life elsewhere, and if you don't believe otherwise you are naive, is wrong.

I think the study of biology shows us that not only were we designed, but that it is foolhardy to think that life could just pop up against impossible odds all over the place.

Biology most certainly does NOT show that we are designed. It shows we have evolved from other species, which go back to the last 3.8 billion years. The processes are understood and they show the naive probability calculations to be completely invalid.

But that also does mean that without a doubt life exists elsewhere than earth. Earth is not the origin of life. And that life exists in other realms of existence other than just the physical that we can see.

No evidence exists for 'other than the physical' or 'other realms of existence'.

 

[Revoltingest]

I read somewhere once a figure, and if I recall it was that it would take a billion billion billion years for a single protein to fold onto itself correctly.

A billion billion billion is a staggeringly large number. A billion billion billion is 10^27 (to the power of 27, or 10 followed by 27 zeros. An octillion).

That means that, not if there were some primordial soup the size of the earth, rather the size of the universe, our universe still isn't anywhere near old enough for a single protein to have folded upon itself by accident to the correct shape.

I was checking references and did find it. I did remember correctly, here it is:



If you really understood the mathematical improbability for that to happen, and then realize that the human body has about 50,000 proteins you see how utterly absurd the notion is that life could have arisen by chance one time by accident in the extremely short life span on our 13 billion year-old universe, let alone many other times.

Calculating probability is a very tricky thing. Take that billion billion
years for your event...we can treat it as occurring in only 1 billion
years if it occurs simultaneously in 1 billion places. Now consider
that there are potentially trillions of planets, each of which would have
gazillions of opportunities for the event. What previously seemed to
be a vanishingly small possibility becomes extremely likely.

Of course, all this points out that we don't have adequate premises
to calculate anything meaningful, ie, can't prove that spontaneous
life is either impossible or ubiquitous.

 

[Brian2]

Take time to watch this. It puts into perspective how we are just a speck on earth and how earth is a much much smaller speck in our galaxy and how our galaxy is a much much smaller speck in the universe. It's pretty cool.

And being the universe is over 13 billion years old, 9 billion years older than earth, if you think we are the only existing life in the universe,,,,, you're pretty naive.

I like this quote
"You humans, when are you going to learn that size does not matter?"
from this movie scene

 

[Twilight Hue]

I read somewhere once a figure, and if I recall it was that it would take a billion billion billion years for a single protein to fold onto itself correctly.

A billion billion billion is a staggeringly large number. A billion billion billion is 10^27 (to the power of 27, or 10 followed by 27 zeros. An octillion).

That means that, not if there were some primordial soup the size of the earth, rather the size of the universe, our universe still isn't anywhere near old enough for a single protein to have folded upon itself by accident to the correct shape.

I was checking references and did find it. I did remember correctly, here it is:



If you really understood the mathematical improbability for that to happen, and then realize that the human body has about 50,000 proteins you see how utterly absurd the notion is that life could have arisen by chance one time by accident in the extremely short life span on our 13 billion year-old universe, let alone many other times.

An order to calculate odds I would say you would first need to have a second successful result.

You will always pull off infitestimal odds each and every time the first time around. Repeating the same for a second time would be a bit more difficult.

 

[Deeje]

if you think we are the only existing life in the universe,,,,, you're pretty naive.

I love that video....it puts everything into perspective.

The Bible speaks of ‘extraterrestrials’ (intelligent entities) who have interacted with humankind since their first appearance on earth.

“Life” has existed for longer than the universe has existed, but science cannot test for what it does not acknowledge. Intelligent life (that is non-material life) has influenced the activities of life on earth for as long as there has been sentient life in our material world....both for good and evil. The Bible tells the story and helps us to make sense of it all.

It has taken thousands of years for humans to develop enough scientific knowledge to take us to where we are now......but those intelligent entities did not disappear because we chose not to acknowledge them. I can imagine them sitting back, watching with interest as we use our ‘scientific knowledge’ to unwittingly bring about our own extinction. “Knowledge is power” as the saying goes....but “power corrupts” as we all know. Can we see it?

Just because some humans have decided that modern science has eliminated the need to believe in these entities, does not mean that they are not still about, nor does it diminish their involvement in human activities. Look at what is happening in the world at present......is it all just coincidental that the Bible predicted all this 2000 years ago?

How clever are we proving to be without God?.....be honest.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So the question is how to reconcile those two pieces of information. And, at this stage, we simply don't know. We have only investigated a very small part of the universe in any detail. Maybe advanced technologies don't produce as much noise for us to detect. Maybe life is common, but intelligent life is rare. Maybe 'intelligent' life ends up destroying itself 'quickly' (less than 10,000 years of technology would be pretty undetectable).

Poor Fermi.

The popular argument seems to go:

Happenstance is opportunistic and directed; if It can happen once It will, given sufficient opportunity, necessarily happen again, even when It refers to an unimaginably complex process.

Therefore the chances of an unique occurrence are zero.​

I'm not a fan. I fully suspect that life is ubiquitous and intelligent life vanishingly rare.

 

[Brian2]

And yet here we are after only 4 billion years of evolution. We are evidence it doesn't take a billion billion billion years

We are that evidence only if you assume that there was no design in it.
That sounds like circular reasoning.

 

[Thief]

Take time to watch this. It puts into perspective how we are just a speck on earth and how earth is a much much smaller speck in our galaxy and how our galaxy is a much much smaller speck in the universe. It's pretty cool.

And being the universe is over 13 billion years old, 9 billion years older than earth, if you think we are the only existing life in the universe,,,,, you're pretty naive.

answering directly to the title of the op......

Someone had to be First
in mind and heart

and He would be aware of the situation
and then moved to form Another

but that would be His Echo

apparently He got tired of talking to Himself

and here we are