Immigration thread-Time to tell the truth

[Kuzcotopia]

When you say the Syrian refugee crisis got the Cheeto elelected, I fear you are so far removed from reality as make me not take you seriously. SERIOUSLY?

Absolutely.

Remember, immigration was one of Trump's key issues. The Syrian Refugee crisis was in the news every day. . . as was a lot of world news prior to the election.

I have stated here that Obama's biggest mistake of his presidency was issuing Assad a Red Line against the use of chemical weapons, without backing it up. As a result, we had to arm every opposition force in the region, regardless of who they were, and turning a dictator's crackdown of the Arab Spring movement into a full scale civil war. The half-%*@ approach led to large scale devistation and death . . . And for what?

Millions fled, and Europe took the brunt of it. . . and the US? Remember the term "extreme vetting?"

One of the major campaign issues was in regard to how many Syrian refugees we were going to take in. He even lied about how many. . . Clinton said around 65,000 and Trump exaggerated it to 620,000.

Donald Trump warns that Syrian refugees represent 'a great Trojan horse' to the U.S.

Trump: Clinton would bring in 620,000 refugees in first term

Nativism and fear of immigrants is exactly how and why Trump got elected in the US. It drove Brexit andnay other hardline immigration stances across Europe. I haven't even mentioned THE WALL.

And yes, It's ultimately Obama'a fault for a blunder in his foreign policy with Assad. Public declarations he can't back up prolonged a civil war for years, and created a crisis and it's associated nativist backlash in the west that the whole world is now dealing with.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Absolutely.

Remember, immigration was one of Trump's key issues. The Syrian Refugee crisis was in the news every day. . . as was a lot of world news prior to the election.

I have stated here that Obama's biggest mistake of his presidency was issuing Assad a Red Line against the use of chemical weapons, without backing it up. As a result, we had to arm every opposition force in the region, regardless of who they were, and turning a dictator's crackdown of the Arab Spring movement into a full scale civil war. The half-%*@ approach led to large scale devistation and death . . . And for what?

Millions fled, and Europe took the brunt of it. . . and the US? Remember the term "extreme vetting?"

One of the major campaign issues was in regard to how many Syrian refugees we were going to take in. He even lied about how many. . . Clinton said around 65,000 and Trump exaggerated it to 620,000.

Donald Trump warns that Syrian refugees represent 'a great Trojan horse' to the U.S.

Trump: Clinton would bring in 620,000 refugees in first term

Nativism and fear of immigrants is exactly how and why Trump got elected in the US. It drove Brexit andnay other hardline immigration stances across Europe. I haven't even mentioned THE WALL.

And yes, It's ultimately Obama'a fault for a blunder in his foreign policy with Assad. Public declarations he can't back up prolonged a civil war for years, and created a crisis and it's associated nativist backlash in the west that the whole world is now dealing with.

Trumps election was a Themadorian Reaction to the long run of the left. Hillary was just too bitter of a pill to swallow and Trump just happenes to be a buffoon who is riding the tide of history.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Trumps election was a Themadorian Reaction to the long run of the left. Hillary was just too bitter of a pill to swallow and Trump just happenes to be a buffoon who is riding the tide of history.

The left never had a long run. . . The last president on the economic left was probably FDR. And this is not some grand sweep of history here . . . the margins were thin, and he lost the popular vote.

But I agree that Clinton was not good enough for a lot of liberals and they stayed home or voted third party. . . conservatives remained loyal. Also a big factor.

But this is a thread about inmigration. . . And I think my previous post was a good one. Am I still in "SERIOUSLY mode" with you, or did I at least make a good point or two?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The left never had a long run. . . The last president on the economic left was probably FDR. And this is not some grand sweep of history here . . . the margins were thin, and he lost the popular vote.

But I agree that Clinton was not good enough for a lot of liberals and they stayed home or voted third party. . . conservatives remained loyal. Also a big factor.

But this is a thread about inmigration. . . And I think my previous post was a good one. Am I still in "SERIOUSLY mode" with you, or did I at least make a good point or two?

Sorry, you just don't get the "Redneck Spring." The hillbillies are in charge. It's as simple as that.

 

[sayak83]

Absolutely.

Remember, immigration was one of Trump's key issues. The Syrian Refugee crisis was in the news every day. . . as was a lot of world news prior to the election.

I have stated here that Obama's biggest mistake of his presidency was issuing Assad a Red Line against the use of chemical weapons, without backing it up. As a result, we had to arm every opposition force in the region, regardless of who they were, and turning a dictator's crackdown of the Arab Spring movement into a full scale civil war. The half-%*@ approach led to large scale devistation and death . . . And for what?

Millions fled, and Europe took the brunt of it. . . and the US? Remember the term "extreme vetting?"

One of the major campaign issues was in regard to how many Syrian refugees we were going to take in. He even lied about how many. . . Clinton said around 65,000 and Trump exaggerated it to 620,000.

Donald Trump warns that Syrian refugees represent 'a great Trojan horse' to the U.S.

Trump: Clinton would bring in 620,000 refugees in first term

Nativism and fear of immigrants is exactly how and why Trump got elected in the US. It drove Brexit andnay other hardline immigration stances across Europe. I haven't even mentioned THE WALL.

And yes, It's ultimately Obama'a fault for a blunder in his foreign policy with Assad. Public declarations he can't back up prolonged a civil war for years, and created a crisis and it's associated nativist backlash in the west that the whole world is now dealing with.

There is and has never been anything US could do that could resolve or shorten the civil war.

 

[Stanyon]

Well you have some racially prejudice for one and I've made it clear in some posts long ago on this particular forum that whenever you have a website that is frequented by members of the same demographic you'll have some racial bias towards certain topics, this is among them. BTW you have some posts where other members have called you out and you have yet to respond....

I'm supposed to defend something?

 

[Stanyon]

The premise is not wrong...You kidding me? I live in the U.S. California specifically and I actually witness this all the time. There are people that do not want immigrants, in California many do not want Mexican and Central Americans specifically.

The premise is wrong because you already assume prejudice which means all responses not agreeing with yours will be framed within the parametres of "agree with me or you are racist". This isn't the first time you have tried to pull this and even said I was a liar when I related personal experiences that differed from what you wanted to hear.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Racism? Stupidity? Too much Fox News?

Well Fox news overload maybe

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm supposed to defend something?

Yeah you can't defend personal racial prejudices

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm supposed to defend something?

Generally speaking, this is a good approach to deal with scurrilous accusations.
It's counter-productive to dignify them with a defense.
1) The accuser won't accept it anyway.
2) Posters don't judge one by others' mere accusations & insults.
3) Vitriolic & vapid accusations speak volumes about the accuser, so commentary is superfluous.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can't speak to the cromulence of this reasoning, but I heard on NPR that because
our immigration policy gives preference to those with familial connections, some
countries are over-represented relative to Eurostanian countries.
There's some basis for this in the statistics of immigration....
Immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

Personally, I don't care what country they're from, so long as
merit is the primary criterion. Except for the Brits....I still
haven't forgiven them for Lucas Electric.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

There is and has never been anything US could do that could resolve or shorten the civil war.

Not true. While a true ceasefire is years away, the major fighting and contested territory over major cities is over. What happened between December 2017 and today?

Instead of Russian/Iranian/Turkish interests supporting Assad and the UN supporting rebels on the other side, we have enough peace for refugees to cease their flow. Why?

The US changed its policies, and the CIA program to arm rebels ended. Yes, we have given into the Russians, but honestly, Obama's half-measures dragged on the worst of the fighting for years.

 

[YmirGF]

See above post...

What would you do (this is a serious scenario)

I'm God....I take everything away from you....I take your home, I take your family, I take you food, clothing (except what you are currently wearing now), I take your money, and transportation. All you have are your clothes. Now imagine I do the same among those around you. So every person you encounter are in a similar or worse predicament than you. Who would you flee to? Remember I took everything. Stores are closed, armies in the street, nowhere to run. The only place is "NeverEverLand." NeverEverLand is filled with great jobs, homes, food, clothing, shelter. Only thing is it has barbed wire and its laws state no unlawful entry.

Remember you're slowly dying and you don't have time to fill out an application and wait ten years, in fact you don't even have a week. What do you do? Do you chance it or wait for death?

Simple. I die.

 

[columbus]

There is and has never been anything US could do that could resolve or shorten the civil war.

Oh no. That's not true at all.
Back when the Assad government was still considered a tyrannical threat to peace, the USA helped get the civil war in Syria underway. We financed and armed nearly anybody who would fight Assad, for almost any reason.
We very nearly gave ground to air missiles to ISIS, McCain was a big advocate for doing so.
Eventually, the USA government came to realize that people who hate our enemies might very well hate us as well. ISIS is a prime example of that, but not the only one by any stretch.
We, the USA, need to just stop meddling in the Middle East and get out. That includes Israel. IMNSHO.
Tom

 

[columbus]

One of the th

I think you are confusing selective entry with prejudice and you seem to have a habit of seeing racism where there is none. The United States is but one country of many in the world with walls.

One of the things
I used to be most proud of about the US was that we didn't have walls.
We had peaceful relationships with our neighbors. We accepted immigrants from almost anywhere. We were a nation of laws, and democracy, and inclusivity.

Anybody who came here with sleeves rolled up was accepted, even if not welcomed right off the bat. My own ancestors were mostly poor Irish trash, from the s**thole that Ireland was in the late 19th century.

They would never get in to Trump's America.
Tom

 

[sayak83]

Oh no. That's not true at all.
Back when the Assad government was still considered a tyrannical threat to peace, the USA helped get the civil war in Syria underway. We financed and armed nearly anybody who would fight Assad, for almost any reason.
We very nearly gave ground to air missiles to ISIS, McCain was a big advocate for doing so.
Eventually, the USA government came to realize that people who hate our enemies might very well hate us as well. ISIS is a prime example of that, but not the only one by any stretch.
We, the USA, need to just stop meddling in the Middle East and get out. That includes Israel. IMNSHO.
Tom

The point is Obama was most for minimal levels intervention. I am well aware that US politics is addicted to interventionism and I don't expect it will change overnight.But Obama was more circumspect than most.

 

[Revoltingest]

The point is Obama was most for minimal levels intervention. I am well aware that US politics is addicted to interventionism and I don't expect it will change overnight.But Obama was more circumspect than most.

His not starting any new wars was his greatest achievement.

 

[columbus]

The point is Obama was most for minimal levels intervention. I am well aware that US politics is addicted to interventionism and I don't expect it will change overnight.But Obama was more circumspect than most.

Not only is that true.
But Obama got a lot of flack from the people who supported making the mess in the first place. The Party of No took over Washington DC, and did their best to keep mucking things up so they would have more to blame Obama for.

From healthcare to Iran, the Republicans were determined to make as much of a mess as possible, so that they would have more to blame Obama for. It didn't matter how much damage it caused the USA.
Tom

 

[sayak83]

His not starting any new wars was his greatest achievement.

No, his greatest achievement is pulling US out of the Great Recession. Bad policies could have easily made it worse than the Great Depression. Instead he worked closely with Europe and Asian countries to stabilize the economy and start the recovery that has now gathered steam worldwide. His most lasting contribution may however be the incentivization of private spaceflight industry.

 

[columbus]

Sorry, you just don't get the "Redneck Spring." The hillbillies are in charge. It's as simple as that.

That started, mainly, in 2009. When a batch of billionaires started the Tea Party and convinced a bunch of red necks to vote against their own best interests.
It was easy to do, with modern media and marketing techniques.

Heck, even Vladimir Putin is in on the game.
Tom