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Immaculate birth of Jesus?
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
No direct proof but said soldiers name was Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera.
Hebrew writings in the Talmud and other works refer to jesus as "Yeshu ben Pantera"
No visible proof either way.
Riders
Well-Known Member
Ah yes that is very interesting.
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Riders good to meet you: Mary "The Mother of the King" remained a virgin! The early Christians have always taught Mary was a perpetual virgin!
The Early Christians have always said Mary was Holy!
31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So, the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Riders
Well-Known Member
So how do you explain Jesus having siblings?
Alien826
No religious beliefs
I thought that was the Virgin Mandy. (From Life of Brian).
MANDY: Well, Brian,... your father isn't Mr. Cohen.
BRIAN: I never thought he was.
MANDY: Now, none of your cheek! He was a Roman, Brian. He was a centurion in the Roman army.
BRIAN: You mean... you were raped?
MANDY: Well, at first, yes.
Seriously, what do you think? What conceivable "proof" could one have for something purported to have occurred some two millennia ago? And, if such "proof" existed, don't you think that it would be the best known piece of evidence on the planet? I honestly don't understand why you would ask such a question.
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
The funny thing is, Joseph was part of Mary's life at this time and could have easily had sex with her. I regard him as Jesus's real father.
The "proof" is in the Gospels and the witness of the Church. You either accept it or don't.
That blasphemy about Mary being raped is a smear that appears to have started with the 2nd century Greek philosopher, Celsus, in his anti-Christian polemics. It was repeated by Jews later with the Talmud and some other writings. The Talmud has a number of insults and blasphemies against Christ besides that. However, there's debate as to whether the Talmud is actually referring to the Jesus of Christianity or other people with the same name. So it depends on which Jews you're talking to there. I've come across Jewish people with either view. Either way, it's not taken seriously by scholars.
Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia
Oh, and the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception without original sin, not Jesus. I wish people would get that right.
Joseph could've had kids from an earlier marriage. Maybe he was a widower. We don't know.
I think that we have the Bible, and the New Testament is evidence for that the immaculate birth. If it didn't really happen, how and why would we have the New Testament? If Jesus was just a nobody, why would we have the stories of him? And why would things go as he said?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe what God says about it rather than what men say.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the only people to witness the event were Mary, Gabriel and Jehovah. I am not in conversation with Mary or Gabriel but I hear God as my witness that the virgin Mary conceived Jesus.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe God sees everything.
Orbit
I'm a planet
Men wrote the Bible.
You aren't going to find me arguing that point!
So true!!!
Dogknox20
Well-Known Member
Riders I hope all is well...
I reply: There is no word in Hebrew for "Cousin"! Mark: 6:3 Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.
Riders Doesn’t mean these individuals are Jesus’ blood brothers and sisters (coming from the same womb).
Acts 9:17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Riders Doesn’t mean Ananias and Paul came from the same womb.
Lot was Abraham’s nephew. The scriptures say he was Brother!
12 They also carried off Abram’s nephew Lot and his possessions, since he was living in Sodom.
13 A man who had escaped came and reported this to Abram the Hebrew. Now Abram was living near the great trees of Mamre the Amorite, a brother of Eshkol and Aner, all of whom were allied with Abram. 14 When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan.
Genesis 13:8 “So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers”
These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).
James and Joseph (also called Joses), who are called Jesus’ “brothers” (Mark 6:3) are indeed the children of Mary—Just not Mary, the mother of Jesus.
After St. Matthew’s account of the crucifixion and death of Jesus, he writes:
“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40).
Riders Christians have always honored Mary as Ever Vergin!
Athanasius of Alexandria A.D. 360
“Therefore, let those who deny that the Son is from the Father by nature and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh of Mary Ever-Virgin [Four Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 (c. A.D. 360)].
St. Jerome A.D. 383)
“You say that Mary did not continue a virgin: I claim still more that Joseph himself, on account of Mary was a virgin, so that from a virgin wedlock a virgin son was born [Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary 21 (A.D. 383)].