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Featured Imagine by John Lennon

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Wild Fox, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    When seeing Paul McCartney recently he gave a tribute to his friend John Lennon which reminded me of his song Imagine. Given the turmoil and anger between countries and religions, his lyrics to his song seem to have so much meaning in our current time.

    "Imagine there's no heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today... Aha-ah...

    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion, too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace... You...

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world... You...

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will live as one"
    by John Lennon.
    Maybe it is just an idealized dream but its message to me carries the meaning that if we stop seeing us as so different from each other and instead see ourselves as the same above religion, above nationality or race, that we could finally work better in cooperation to solve the disasters that lie ahead. I personally would extend this to the rest of the life on earth too. So as the new year begins maybe we should reflect the wisdom in his words. I wonder if anyone else agrees?
     
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  2. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Nah....
     
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  3. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Personally, I think it is perhaps one of his poorest songs. His drug addled ranting is impressive to some apparently. The sweeping assumptions involved in the lyrics were so embarrassing that Lennon himself was critical of the song but, of course, I can't put my finger on that interview I know I have heard. It is good the Yoko finally got some credit for writing some of the insipid lyrics.

    I think this is a good contestant for his best song.
     
    #3 YmirGF, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    I just don't like John Lennon, I never have. He was a difficult person to put it mildly. He was an ***.
     
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  5. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    Yes. I have long since been inspired by Lennon’s Imagine lyrics.
    But I’m saddened to see how little humanity has learned in 50 years.
    Perhaps the three evils he described are a little weaker now than they were then.......we shall see.
     
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  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Its thought provoking. That is what music should be sometimes. :) I think that this ideal seems more possible to some than to others. :) Competition has been a necessity for so long and seems built into us. Also we are judgmental, and that seems built in to us as well.

    Imagine no competition, its easy if you try.
    No bosses and no factories. Everyone wears bow ties.
    Imagine all the people living for today.

    Imagine no courthouses, no money and no greed.
    There's no need to pay for things. No title and no deed.
    Imagine streams and deserts, puppies and underoos.

    You can say that we don't need money, but right now it seems we do.
    Maybe we could survive without religion, but just try tell that to my aunt Boo.
    It seems like at the moment, life is not so bad...hey hey

    So lets imagine something: that the world's already one.
    There's no need to unify it; because its already done.
    Maybe if we don't deny it. Then we will realize its true.
     
  7. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    The Beatles were overrated and John Lennon was homophobic, physically abused women, mocked disabled people, and was a worthless father.
     
  8. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    As an amateur Science Fiction writer, my stories are often Post Apocalyptic, and Dystopian.
     
  9. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    God, you could say that about almost anyone from the era. ;( He did leave a sizable estate so he was a long ways from being a worthless father.
     
    #9 YmirGF, Dec 27, 2018
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  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It may surprise you to learn that this was basically the Creator's first purpose for the human race. For him there was only one race...the human race.
    For him there was no need for religion because there was only one God and we would praise him just by our existence and our care for what he created.
    Full co-operation with our fellow man in sharing the planet and its natural resources, not for greedy gain but because it was supplied free for all to enjoy.
    Possessions mean nothing if there is no cost. Greed cannot exist. Hunger would not exist......poverty would not exist. There would be nothing to fight over.

    It was humans thinking that they could do a better job at ruling themselves independently, that caused all the problems we are now stuck with.

    As it was in the beginning....it will be so again. The Creator did not go to all this trouble for nothing. He will bring his purpose back full circle. This is what I believe.
     
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  11. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Be that as it may, it still illustrates that he wasn't this sort of "peace and love" messiah figure that people have perceived and portrayed him as.
     
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  12. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Didn't he get shot to death? His enemies were that mad?
     
  13. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Few, if any, are.
     
  14. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    The message is nothing more than soft nihilism wrapped in "peace and love" packaging. It's trite nonsense.

    No thanks. I reject it utterly.
     
    #14 Musing Bassist, Dec 27, 2018
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  15. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

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    Only one enemy shot him yet the conspiracy theories still remain in somes minds even being hinted at in the movie Mr.Holland's Opus in a scene when he stated "they killed him!" after hearing of his death (I notice wierd things like that) though subtle, it was still there. Who "they" were depends on the conspiracy theory and who is telling it but the most popular one seemed to be the U.S. government was behind it.
    If we want to go to conspiracy theory land the Seth Rich murder seems far more plausible for political cloak and dagger stuff as he was a key figure while John Lennon was just a singer.
     
    #15 Stanyon, Dec 27, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  16. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Probably the stupedist song ever written...imagine what would happen if there were no religion?

    Nobody could blame it for all the problems that would still exist, because people are responsible for them, religion isn't.

    imagine what would happen if there were no countries?

    Well, the well militarized would soon make them....because people do that sort of thing.

    Imagine no possessions? Everybody would be cold, hungry, illiterate, naked, sick and dying when they were 30, pounding on rocks and threatening everybody else with sticks.

    ..........and that given that John Lennon was rather wealthy and I never knew that he had given everything he had away so that if others joined him they'd find a world with no possessions...

    yep, quite the dumbest song ever written.
     
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  17. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Sounds like you have trouble imagining.

    It is not a "dumb song" let alone "the dumbest song." The fact is that song has motivated many towards acts of kindness, non-violence, and joy.

    Why on earth would you poo-poo that? Is it because it is idealistic or naive? So what! That is hardly a reason to be bitter. I do not mind people criticizing people with power and clout, but at least have legitimate reasons. You sound like someone raging on Dr. Seuss because he wrote Oh the Places You'll Go.
     
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  18. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    I see that diversity needs to be accommodated, so these words are great sentiments. They are a dream however, because the reality is that only an individual of great knowledge and enlightenment can attain the state of being God on Earth.
     
  19. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    No...actually I'm just tired of those anti-theists who keep quoting "Imagine" as if it were Holy Writ in their constant quest to rid the world of religion, as if their 'imagination' and the elimination of something that if they are RIGHT is a man-made construct. If they are RIGHT, getting rid of religion would not only NOT solve the problems they think it would, history has shown us that forcing the elimination of religion is an extremely nasty and violent thing to do. Democidal. Genocidal.

    And people would still go on doing what those anti-theist types are blaming religion for.

    "Imagine" seems to be their anthem.

    .....and frankly, I don't see that it has motivated anything but people sitting around a campfire alternating 'Imagine' with "Kumbaya." (which is a combination that has always made me go wait...what?) I haven't seen that it has motivated any actual DEEDS of kindness. "Non-violence' is simply NOT doing something, and 'joy' is purely personal. Wonderful, but it doesn't affect anybody ELSE.

    Our job in this world, I believe, is not to HAVE joy (though we do get that) but to GIVE joy. Not to simply 'be non-violent," but to protect others against violence. Not to imagine, but to DO. Not to sit around and sing idealistic (with incredibly stupid ideals) but to work to make others well, and happy, and able to have their own joys and peace.

    THAT'S what we should be doing. And that's the only thing that will, perhaps, bring peace to the world.

    That song? There's nothing about it's ideals that would even begin to accomplish that.
     
  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    I believe it was some mentally ill stalker upset over his "bigger than Jesus" remark and also obsessed over the novel "Catcher in the Rye", however that ties in.
     
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