metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The simple answer is yes, but he would not be able to publicly state as such.
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Im serious: Catholics
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Let me comment on this because there's something about the RCC that a lot of people are pretty much unaware of, including some Catholics themselves.
The church has as one of its roles teaching, and the individual Catholic has the roles of learning what is taught and making conscientious decisions.
IOW, can a Catholic disagree with teachings, including even papal announcements (minus those that are ex cathedra), and the answer is yes-- but with some limitations. For example, I personally know a priest who is gay, but he cannot publicly state as such, plus he would indeed get into trouble if he was caught having a gay relationship that involved sex.
My point for this post is that so many people look at the church as supposedly teaching blind obedience to any and all church teachings, and this simply is not true. Another priest that I know compares the role of the church to a Roman traffic cop who is directing traffic but is very often getting ignored. But if a driver gets into an accident, the cop is there to sort out what caused the problem and then act accordingly.
Needless to say, with this attitude with the church, what are the chances of one getting excommunicated? Answer: very slim. You have responsibility to yourself, and the church recognizes that, so actions that you take or don't take will eventually fall on you.
So, are there "Catholic conservatives"? Yep, and plenty of them, both in the religious and the political realms.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That's what I mean, though, publicly. In our diocese, to be a priest you can't identify as homosexual. Many priest most likely are "in the closet" but I was rationalized it as it's better to be in the closet and serve god's people then out of the closet and serve self.
It's logical, but in my view, highly immoral.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I responded to the above on your other similar thread, so please check that out.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Being a pedophile doesn't make people abuse children.
Being homosexual doesn't make people do same-sex actions
Being epileptic doesn't mean you have to have a seizure that moment to be epileptic.
So if a priest said he was homosexual, how would that be wrong if he was celibate all his life?
It means ssthey have already abused children.
Yes it does.
I haven't said it does.
Being a homosexual is not a sin. Doing homosexual acts is the sin.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Here is the problem, though:
Yes, that is true. So...
No it does not. You said being homosexual is not a sin. Which means that homosexuals do not always have same-sex acts. We don't always sin. That's not the definition of homosexual. If it were, then you would have said the opposite.
Think of it this way. I can go out and make lust to a guy and still be homosexual. Yes, I have sinned; but, I am still homosexual regardless of who I slept with.
I did. "Being epileptic doesn't mean you have to have a seizure that moment to be epileptic." Someone isn't homosexual the moment they are having same-sex acts.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation not an action. You said it wasn't a sin. I said it wasn't a sin. Homosexuals have the ability to choose who they sleep with. That action is a choice.
Homosexuality has nothing to do with same-sex sex.
Yes, that is true. So...
Me: Being homosexual doesn't make people do same-sex actions
No it does not. You said being homosexual is not a sin. Which means that homosexuals do not always have same-sex acts. We don't always sin. That's not the definition of homosexual. If it were, then you would have said the opposite.
Think of it this way. I can go out and make lust to a guy and still be homosexual. Yes, I have sinned; but, I am still homosexual regardless of who I slept with.
I did. "Being epileptic doesn't mean you have to have a seizure that moment to be epileptic." Someone isn't homosexual the moment they are having same-sex acts.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation not an action. You said it wasn't a sin. I said it wasn't a sin. Homosexuals have the ability to choose who they sleep with. That action is a choice.
Homosexuality has nothing to do with same-sex sex.
Think of it this way. If you make love with one of th same sex, you are a homosexual. If you never do, you are not a homosexual.
I guess you are referring to some who go both ways. It doens' matter, having sex with one of the same sex is a homosexual act and is a sin.
sexual orientation has never been proven. A homosexual will always choose one of the same sex
Of coures it does, by definition.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I see the conflict now:
Thats like saying being an african american has never been proven.
So that means You can be homosexual one day and heterosexual the next? You can be spiritually attracted to same gender one day and opposite gender the next?
Do you define yourself as straight by what you do in bed?
If not, are you straight?
You mean that not all straight people are straight because some of you have sex with both genders which by your definition makes straight people bisexuals?
What do you call people who never had sex?
Thats biblical definition. Dictionary goes by sexual orientation and attraction.
If I want to know what christians believe, Id go to a christian.
If I want to know how homosexuals define themselves, Id go to that person.
Not a book and not a dictionary.
Thats like saying being an african american has never been proven.
So that means You can be homosexual one day and heterosexual the next? You can be spiritually attracted to same gender one day and opposite gender the next?
Do you define yourself as straight by what you do in bed?
If not, are you straight?
You mean that not all straight people are straight because some of you have sex with both genders which by your definition makes straight people bisexuals?
What do you call people who never had sex?
Thats biblical definition. Dictionary goes by sexual orientation and attraction.
If I want to know what christians believe, Id go to a christian.
If I want to know how homosexuals define themselves, Id go to that person.
Not a book and not a dictionary.
When I started liking girls.
No it isn't. That there African American can be seen.
No it doesn't
I don't make definitions.
You mean that not all straight people are straight because some of you have sex with both genders which by your definition makes straight people bisexuals?
What do you call people who never had sex?
Thats biblical definition. Dictionary goes by sexual orientation and attraction.
If I want to know what christians believe, Id go to a christian.
If I want to know how homosexuals define themselves, Id go to that person.
Not a book and not a dictionary.[/QUOTE]
That depends on which book you mean and if the homosexual defines their self by what the dictionary uses.
WE don't get to define ourselves if it is contradictory to how a good dictionary defines the word.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
But you cant like a girl until you have sex with them according to how you define homosexuality (its the same with heterosexuality)
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
According to the bible, you can be straight one day (opposite sex) and homosexual the next (same sex) sex. So straight people can be homosexuals and homosexuals can be straight.
You have the ability to become homosexual just as the rest of us according to the bible. Since its a sexual orientation as the dictionary says, I say you cant.
Do you disagree?
If you do, how do you define your spiritual experience as a homosexual during the time you made love within a blessed marriage?
We dont get to define ourselves??? We are not slaves to a dictionary. Maybe god defines you but life doesnt work that way.
If you do not know Who you are as a person, how do you live? By what morals would you live by if you had no god?
And what about You that makes you unique from other christians? Youre not god.
Dictionaries dont define us. I am a homosexual because I am
Physically
Spiritually
Mentally
Emotionally
Attracted to members of the same gender.
Behavior has nothing to do with it. Dictionary doesnt say behavior is the key component to straight attraction anymore than homoexual. Sexual orientation is a human thing. LGBT are not aliens (my words) There is no bias.
You have the ability to become homosexual just as the rest of us according to the bible. Since its a sexual orientation as the dictionary says, I say you cant.
Do you disagree?
If you do, how do you define your spiritual experience as a homosexual during the time you made love within a blessed marriage?
We dont get to define ourselves??? We are not slaves to a dictionary. Maybe god defines you but life doesnt work that way.
If you do not know Who you are as a person, how do you live? By what morals would you live by if you had no god?
And what about You that makes you unique from other christians? Youre not god.
Dictionaries dont define us. I am a homosexual because I am
Physically
Spiritually
Mentally
Emotionally
Attracted to members of the same gender.
Behavior has nothing to do with it. Dictionary doesnt say behavior is the key component to straight attraction anymore than homoexual. Sexual orientation is a human thing. LGBT are not aliens (my words) There is no bias.
That is a strawman. I liked many girls that I never had sex with. I loved my wife before I had sex with her. I don't define homosexuality by if they have had sex with someone. I am sure homosexuals like people thy have never had sex with.
If you want to continue, take your comments out of the silly category.
Speak for your self. If you define your self contrary to what a good dictionary says, guess who is wrong.
I know who I am as well as you do, probably better. I had a fairly moral life before I had a God. Now I have a better understanding of morality. Not that I am always moral, but now I recognize it as sin.
How about posting where I said I was god.
Yes they do. If you are a homosexual, I accept that you are. It is really none of my business.
Behavior is the only defining characteristic and sexual orientation has never been proved. If you accept the term, that is fine with me.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Yes. That's why it confuses me. Homosexuality has nothing to do with behavior neither does heterosexuality does. You can hang out with the same gender and I can the opposite gender; that doesn't make you LGB and it doesn't make me hetersexual or bisexual.
Why single out the homosexual community? Just talk about the behavior. Leave homosexuals out of it.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Okaaye.
No sarcasm.
If you believe a homosexual is one when he commits homosexual behavior, by the logic a straight person can be homosexual when engages in the same behavior. Then they can be straight and back to gay again. Can a straight person turn gay? Can you turn gay?
Do not be rude and no sarcasm.
You can define yourself by a dictionary all you want. In the dictionary it says marriage is between man and woman and man/man and woman/woman. Since that's in the dictionary, the bible doesn't mean anything. The Bible means nothing compared to the dictionary, if that be the case.
Spirituality is not in the dictionary. If you define your spiritual life by the dictionary, so be. A lot of us see our identity beyond that. It's a inner thang. Don't know if you understand that or not.
That's an assumption and huge generation. You do not know me. We are just online.
You may know better than me given there could be an age difference but morals can be at any age and can shape people's lives at almost any age. You don't have to be an "adult" to have good morals that aren't defined by your parents.
I had good morals before I knew about the spirits. Now I have a better understanding of morality because I see the diversity in people's truths, the care they give me as well as my family on earth, and how everything isn't black and white. They guide me and protect me. So, my morals become linked with family, community, and myself and how I see myself. Regardless if you believe me or not doesn't change that fact.
However, unlike you, I am still growing in my morality and will do so until I pass away to spirit and help my family in spirit. It doesn't stop at a certain age. I know that as a fact.
Huh?
What's none of your business? Behavior or a person's identity?
I can careless about John's behavior as a straight person. However, if he told me he was straight and that was personal to him yes, as a friend, I wouldn't say it's none of my business. Depends on situation and how you define things.
No it isn't. How can you love the sinner and hate the sin if you take out them being homosexual until they act in a homosexual manner? Then when they arent acting, are they still homosexual?
Many African Americans do not coming together because of color of skin. That's a huge part of it. We come together because of shared history because of color of skin. That connection is our identity.
Likewise with LGBTQ community and other minorities.
No sarcasm.
If you believe a homosexual is one when he commits homosexual behavior, by the logic a straight person can be homosexual when engages in the same behavior. Then they can be straight and back to gay again. Can a straight person turn gay? Can you turn gay?
Do not be rude and no sarcasm.
You can define yourself by a dictionary all you want. In the dictionary it says marriage is between man and woman and man/man and woman/woman. Since that's in the dictionary, the bible doesn't mean anything. The Bible means nothing compared to the dictionary, if that be the case.
Spirituality is not in the dictionary. If you define your spiritual life by the dictionary, so be. A lot of us see our identity beyond that. It's a inner thang. Don't know if you understand that or not.
That's an assumption and huge generation. You do not know me. We are just online.
You may know better than me given there could be an age difference but morals can be at any age and can shape people's lives at almost any age. You don't have to be an "adult" to have good morals that aren't defined by your parents.
I had good morals before I knew about the spirits. Now I have a better understanding of morality because I see the diversity in people's truths, the care they give me as well as my family on earth, and how everything isn't black and white. They guide me and protect me. So, my morals become linked with family, community, and myself and how I see myself. Regardless if you believe me or not doesn't change that fact.
However, unlike you, I am still growing in my morality and will do so until I pass away to spirit and help my family in spirit. It doesn't stop at a certain age. I know that as a fact.
Huh?
What's none of your business? Behavior or a person's identity?
I can careless about John's behavior as a straight person. However, if he told me he was straight and that was personal to him yes, as a friend, I wouldn't say it's none of my business. Depends on situation and how you define things.
No it isn't. How can you love the sinner and hate the sin if you take out them being homosexual until they act in a homosexual manner? Then when they arent acting, are they still homosexual?
Homosexuality, to many LGBT community, is an identity not an action. If you don't respect and believe people who are LGBT for who they are, then that's not respect. It's better to say you don't respect the person because you define him by his behavior rather than who he is regardless if he does anything or not. It would make it easier to understand why you say what you do. You don't have to be nice about it, just be direct.
Many African Americans do not coming together because of color of skin. That's a huge part of it. We come together because of shared history because of color of skin. That connection is our identity.
Likewise with LGBTQ community and other minorities.
Of course it does. One does not have sex just hanging out.
If you want to leave it out, be my guest.