Im new to the reading of the Guru Grant Sahib, question..

[W3bcrowf3r]

Do other Gods exist according to the Guru?

It says that there is only one God. But why is my translation speaking about other gods? This is a contradiction in the translation. Can someone who can read the original help me with this question?

 

[Treks]

It's not a contradiction in the translation. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does talk about other gods. Usually it's in the context of using terminology and imagery familiar to Guru Sahib's audience at the time, and putting a new (Sikh) spin on it. Sometimes the audience is Hindu (so Guru Sahib talks about Raam, Vishnu, Lakshmi, Shiva, etc.) and sometimes Muslim (so Guru Sahib talks about Allah).

Ultimately the message in Gurbani seems to be that at best these beings are part of the myriad of creation, and at worst wrapped up in the "illusion" of Maya itself, much like the rest of us.

The message in Gurbani always goes past the gods and goddesses and religious rituals and lands on One Universal Creative Force and simply being a good person without complicated rituals.

Are there any particular passages you'd like to discuss?

 

[Treks]

They're all one

What do you mean by this in the context of Sikhi?

 

[Treks]

Treks, Sikhi, in depth, is monist.

I am aware of that, but I'm not sure that answers the question I asked @Unguru .

 

[Treks]

@Unguru claims that in Sikhi "[the gods] are all one". I'm waiting for he or she to clarify just what they mean by that in a Sikh context. It is a specific statement and by itself could be confusing if they don't expand on what they're saying.

I don't fell that "The gods are all one because Sikhs believe in oneness (monism)" really answers the question at all.

 

[Unguru]

What do you mean by this in the context of Sikhi?

Most Siki's that I know state this pretty clearly that there is one God, one source. This is Sikh doctrine as far as I'm aware.

 

[Treks]

Most Siki's that I know state this pretty clearly that there is one God, one source. This is Sikh doctrine as far as I'm aware.

(no, I'm not debating...mods who removed my post...)

Yes, in Sikhi there is Ik Onkar, one universal creative force. It goes further in a way that Aupmanyav alluded to; Sikhi is panentheistic so that everything in existence is essentially formed from god itself - like a wave (an object in creation) is simply water in the shape of a wave, that tumbles down to merge with the water again.

However, waves are still waves. The illusion is in thinking the wave is in-and-of itself a wave. It's not - it is water. And the water is God. The Sikh's mission is to constantly have simran (remembrance) of this fact. This is the essence of reality.

Sikhi emphasises the oneness and absolute pervasiveness of this Ik Onkar and goes as far as to say that gods and goddesses are rooted in / products of Maya and that they, too, yearn for Ik Onkar and sing at Its door with the rest of creation.

At the same time Gurbani does sometimes equate gods together - for instance, equating Raam and Allah together.

So when you say "all gods are one", what does that actually mean in a Sikh context?

 

[Unguru]

You are correct in your post Treks.

So when you say "all gods are one", what does that actually mean in a Sikh context?

All are paths lead to Brahman essentially, there is nothing else objective beside it (Ik Onkar/Karta Purkh), the universal spirit. Sikhism does contain monotheism, monism and pantheism in it's belief structure but the way it interprets it is obviously Dharmic.
In Sikh literature, we call God by the names of many deities in a syncretic way, we emphasize a universal acknowledgement of deities again, as they are seen as paths to God (so we are tolerant of other religions).
God is one, one is God, all is God, God is all.

 

[Treks]

Thanks for expanding on your point. While I do not agree with your interpretation of Sikh literature and the idea of all gods being paths to God, that's okay. The world is big enough for both of us.

 

[Treks]

Edit: I moved my post to a private conversation with Unguru.

 

[ajay0]

Do other Gods exist according to the Guru?

It says that there is only one God. But why is my translation speaking about other gods? This is a contradiction in the translation. Can someone who can read the original help me with this question?

The Sikh religion is monotheistic, and do not have polytheism or image worship. Mention maybe there of other gods but they are considered inferior to Waheguru or the monotheistic God.

It is the same in Buddhism where gods are mentioned, but Buddhism is primarily agnostic, and gives attention to study and intelligent self-effort.

Sikhism is monotheistic, and the other Dharmic sects Arya Samaj and Prajapita Brahmakumaris are equivalent to it in terms of philosophy.

 

[Treks]

Hello Ajay

In my understanding Sikhi is panentheistic, not monotheistic.

Monotheism puts God and creation separate. Panentheism has creation made of God and God extending beyond the creation. (refer my earlier post re. water and the wave)

Are you sure monotheism describes Sikhi?

 

[ajay0]

In my understanding Sikhi is panentheistic, not monotheistic.

Most Sikhs state themselves to be monotheistic, and I just stated their views. But yeah, Sikhism seems to be more akin to panentheism.

In a Hindu perspective, the focus in Sikhism seems to be more on Saguna Brahman (personal God) rather than Nirguna Brahman (Impersonal Spirit) due to the theme of worship and devotion.

 

[ajay0]

Yes, in Sikhi there is Ik Onkar, one universal creative force. It goes further in a way that Aupmanyav alluded to; Sikhi is panentheistic so that everything in existence is essentially formed from god itself - like a wave (an object in creation) is simply water in the shape of a wave, that tumbles down to merge with the water again.

However, waves are still waves. The illusion is in thinking the wave is in-and-of itself a wave. It's not - it is water. And the water is God. The Sikh's mission is to constantly have simran (remembrance) of this fact. This is the essence of reality.

Sikhi emphasises the oneness and absolute pervasiveness of this Ik Onkar and goes as far as to say that gods and goddesses are rooted in / products of Maya and that they, too, yearn for Ik Onkar and sing at Its door with the rest of creation.

At the same time Gurbani does sometimes equate gods together - for instance, equating Raam and Allah together.

So when you say "all gods are one", what does that actually mean in a Sikh context?

"Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the wondrous Lord. Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the all-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction." (Guru Granth Sahib 1374)

Ram in the Sikh context is not for the Avatar Rama in Hinduism, but for God in an all pervading sense.

 

[Treks]

"Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider. Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the wondrous Lord. Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the all-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction." (Guru Granth Sahib 1374)

Ram in the Sikh context is not for the Avatar Rama in Hinduism, but for God in an all pervading sense.

My friend, you just won the internet

 

[ajay0]

I think, the Prajapita Brahmakumaris are the only strictly monotheistic Dharmic sect in India.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris worship the monotheistic God Shiva as a point of light.

The Brahmakumaris are also incidentally the only spiritual organisation in the world led, administered and taught by women, with centres in India and all over the world. It has become a symbol of women's empowerment in India and the world, considering the male-dominated nature of religion in general.

 

[Unguru]

I think, the Prajapita Brahmakumaris are the only strictly monotheistic Dharmic sect in India.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris worship the monotheistic God Shiva as a point of light.

The Brahmakumaris are also incidentally the only spiritual organisation in the world led, administered and taught by women, with centres in India and all over the world. It has become a symbol of women's empowerment in India and the world, considering the male-dominated nature of religion in general.

I have never heard of this before, thank you for sharing

 

[ManSinha]

"Raam" is the most often used name for the lord in SGGS - even more than Waheguru -
There is a trend here - ask most Sikhs what the word "Gobind" means to them and (perhaps) most will answer that it was the given name of the 10th Master and yet Gobind also stands for Universal Truth eg. "Gun Gobind Gaayo Nahin Janam Akaraath Keen" - "Gobind Milan Ki Eh Teri Bari-aa" etc