If Your Spouse Is Abusive, Is It OK To Cheat?

[Kathryn]

Don't you think that most abused women are FORCED
into "implying" that they are "committed" to the marriage.
Though in this case, "committed" is more like
being committed (unfairly) to a mental institution.

I think Kathryn, that your definition of "Cheating"
is overly simplistic.

Abused women hide EVERYTHING.
everything of personal importance to them.
all of their deepest thoughts, hopes and desires.
They will only be mocked,
and more closely watched/monitored.

I hide/downplay even my relationships to my closest friends,
as I still live with a man who will do just that.
(and make up all kinds of stories in his own mind besides)
The less he knows about me
and my life
the better off I am.
period.

The less I say,
the less drama there is.
Plain and simple.
Silence goes a long way.
A silent home is much better than a home
filled with mockery and accusations,
especially where there are children present.

I volunteer NO personal information,
and speak very little,
when he is home.
I go and retreat to my own room upstairs.
(which I call my "Purple Tower")
Some people might call this "hiding things".
As if it's something.... bad....
But whatever.

Violet, I've been there myself. I was there for eleven long, sad years. I couldn't and didn't confide anything to my husband once I realized that the marriage was irrevokably, hopelessly broken and that I had to get out. This, of course, also infuriated him, because he knew I was hiding basically everything from him.

In this time period (the last two years of my marriage) I very nearly had an affair, with a scrumptious man. Believe me, I thought long and hard about it. I wanted it so badly - and I felt I deserved that happiness and passion in my life after so many bleak years!

In the end, I decided against it. It would have further complicated my planned exit. Once I got out of the marriage and regained my emotional strength, I realized that was a good choice on my part. That man I was so attracted to would not have been a good choice for me. I see that now, but I didn't see it at the time. I think it would have made a royal mess of things overall.

When I finally did get divorced, I was able to live with myself and know that I had not done further damage to the marriage - in other words, my conscience was very clear. This may not be important to some people, but it was important to me. It made things easier to sort out. Plus - it went greatly in my favor in court. In other words, it was much better for me and for my children and that was the most important thing.

 

[Kathryn]

What you are saying here is entirely irrelevant to my point, which is simply that you do not have scientific corroboration for your claim that few abused people leave their abuser for another person.

Oh, sorry, I must have missed the scientific corroborations cited by you and others to support their opinions on this thread. My bad.

 

[blackout]

THIS is exactly the problem with legal marriage.

THERE IS NO MARRIAGE.
and yet the state holds you to this inane piece of paper.
You are ruled and held by it,
until you somehow manage to serve your spouse divorce papers.

The crime is the hold they have on you.
There should be an ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR CLAUSE
complete in every marriage contract,
that renders that contract null and void
from all "marital 'fidelity' rules"
if your spouse is abusive,
or even if you have lived seperated
in your own home
for over 6 months.
These assinine "fidelity" rules should not apply.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh, sorry, I must have missed the scientific corroborations cited by you and others to support their opinions on this thread. My bad.

Show me where I have claimed my experience ranks science. Or even just show me where I claim to have scientific corroboration for my experience. I'm not you, Kathryn, I'm not an authority on everything.

 

[Kathryn]

Show me where I have claimed my experience ranks science. Or even just show me where I claim to have scientific corroboration for my experience.

"I know you are but what am I?" "Same to you but more of it." "Nanny nanny boo boo!" "Takes one to know one!"

Sunstone - as far as I can tell, NO ONE, you and I included, has offered a single scientific study to bolster a personal opinion on this thread. This thread seems to me to be a question regarding personal opinions, and of course, when people offer personal opinions, they usually discuss WHY they have those opinions.

I base my opinions on the question "If your spouse is abusive, is it OK to cheat?" on my personal experiences as well as my many years of ongoing work with abused women and children. Apparently others within my community find my advice and position to have some real life worth and merit, since that advice continues to be sought out and my work continues to be in demand. I have reached a point where I am actually grateful for my own experiences in a very abusive relationship, because I am now able to help others escape such scenarios.

I don't expect to be able to prove anything to you on this forum, and that's not even my goal. My goal on this thread is not to prove any sort of point. I do hope, though, that maybe someone who is in an abusive relationship, or who knows someone who is, may read what I've posted and find something of merit that they can apply to their life - something they can use to make a positive difference in their life and the lives of their children.

I don't really care whether or not you agree with anything I post. Sorry - but it's not about you. Unless, of course, you're in an abusive relationship. In that case, I'd like to be able to help you if possible.

 

[Kathryn]

THIS is exactly the problem with legal marriage.

THERE IS NO MARRIAGE.
and yet the state holds you to this inane piece of paper.
You are ruled and held by it,
until you somehow manage to serve your spouse divorce papers.

The crime is the hold they have on you.
There should be an ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR CLAUSE
complete in every marriage contract,
that renders that contract null and void
from all "marital 'fidelity' rules"
if your spouse is abusive,
or even if you have lived seperated
in your own home
for over 6 months.
These assinine "fidelity" rules should not apply.

Laws vary from state to state. Personally, I think some divorce laws are absolutely ridiculous - for instance, in the state of Virginia, and also Georgia, I think, you have to be legally separated for 13 months, go through some sort of marriage classes, etc. RIDICULOUS. You don't owe the state any sort of explanation about why you want out of a marriage!

Texas has no fault divorce. You can be divorced in six weeks or so. Personally, I like that option because like I said, we don't owe the state an explanation. Divorce is extremely personal and should be as private as possible. States which make it difficult to get divorced make it difficult for abused spouses to get out of the marriage, when the last thing they need is MORE obstacles to escape.

That really burns me up.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm not you, Kathryn, I'm not an authority on everything.

And once again, you resort to personal attacks.

Cheap shot, Sunstone.

I am not an authority on everything. But I have learned a lot from the many mistakes I've made in my life, and I don't mind sharing what I've learned. My position is one of humility, not authority. I am not PROUD that I made an incredibly stupid decision to, not only marry an abuser, but to have FOUR CHILDREN in that marriage, and to force those children to live in that marriage, and to give them an abuser for a father. My gosh, what a sad scenario that is. Look what I saddled my children with, for a lifetime. Now, as a woman in my forties, I get to watch my own adult children struggle with and work through that emotional baggage. Believe me, I carry some significant guilt with me regarding the mess I made of my life in my twenties.

I can only hope that I can help others avoid some of the very common, and very destructive, choices I have made. I do speak with some authority on some matters, because I do know what many of the pitfalls are - tragically so. These pitfalls create shattered lives, and if I can prevent someone from tearing their life, and the lives of their children apart, believe me, I am going to take the opportunity to speak out boldly. They can choose to tune me out if they like, or they can argue with me and I can gain even more perspective - but I'm not going to sit by idly when a topic that I am painfully familiar with is brought to the table.

 

[Revoltingest]

Show me where I have claimed my experience ranks science. Or even just show me where I claim to have scientific corroboration for my experience. I'm not you, Kathryn, I'm not an authority on everything.

---- Temporary unofficial & incompetent moderator here ---
Geeze Louise....get a grip on yourself. The thread was just starting to get interesting.
They oughta be able to have a discussion involving personal experiences without your derailing it with insults & instigation.

 

[Sunstone]

And once again, you resort to personal attacks.

Cheap shot, Sunstone.

I am not an authority on everything. But I have learned a lot from the many mistakes I've made in my life, and I don't mind sharing what I've learned. My position is one of humility, not authority. I am not PROUD that I made an incredibly stupid decision to, not only marry an abuser, but to have FOUR CHILDREN in that marriage, and to force those children to live in that marriage, and to give them an abuser for a father. My gosh, what a sad scenario that is. Look what I saddled my children with, for a lifetime. Now, as a woman in my forties, I get to watch my own adult children struggle with and work through that emotional baggage. Believe me, I carry some significant guilt with me regarding the mess I made of my life in my twenties.

I can only hope that I can help others avoid some of the very common, and very destructive, choices I have made. I do speak with some authority on some matters, because I do know what many of the pitfalls are - tragically so. These pitfalls create shattered lives, and if I can prevent someone from tearing their life, and the lives of their children apart, believe me, I am going to take the opportunity to speak out boldly. They can choose to tune me out if they like, or they can argue with me and I can gain even more perspective - but I'm not going to sit by idly when a topic that I am painfully familiar with is brought to the table.

When are you going to stop making my simple observation that you do not have scientific corroboration for your opinion that few people leave abusive relationships for other people -- when, if ever, are you going to stop trying to turn that observation into an attack on your entire career? Today? Tomorrow? Never?

EDIT: And by "career", I think it's pretty obvious to anyone that I mean your work with abused people, and not your banking career.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Here's a tough question for you:

If your spouse abuses you and/or your children, are you still bound by your marriage vows? Specifically:

(1) Must you still keep your spouse forever? Why or why not?

(2) Must you still forgo all others besides your spouse? Why or why not?

(3) When does a marriage end? When are the vows null and void? When one partner (i.e. the abusive spouse) first breaks the marriage vows, or marriage contract, by abusing the other partner and/or the kids, or does it end only when a court of law says it ends? Why?

And, to make this interesting, please keep in mind while answering the questions that life is seldom black and white. In other words, a manipulative, abusive partner might also be a good provider, for instance, just as a manipulated, abused spouse is unlikely to be lily white, either.

1) I don't believe in keeping an abusive spouse forever. Such marital customs are antiquated and dangerous.

2) Forgoing all others besides your spouse is perhaps prudent and wise if the abuser is - here's that word again - dangerous. I'd consider survival instinct to trump the pursuit of happiness card as the wiser choice unless or until proper safeguards are in place.

3) As far as I'm concerned, the marriage is null and void once there are clear and present steps taken to dissolve the contract. A separation, then, is a step in that direction, and provides each member a buffer, however large or small, to seek enjoyment with someone else.

Just my two cents.

 

[Revoltingest]

1) I don't believe in keeping an abusive spouse forever. Such marital customs are antiquated and dangerous.
2) Forgoing all others besides your spouse is perhaps prudent and wise if the abuser is - here's that word again - dangerous. I'd consider survival instinct to trump the pursuit of happiness card as the wiser choice unless or until proper safeguards are in place.
3) As far as I'm concerned, the marriage is null and void once there are clear and present steps taken to dissolve the contract. A separation, then, is a step in that direction, and provides each member a buffer, however large or small, to seek enjoyment with someone else.
Just my two cents.

I wish I'd known you & Kathryn back when I had employees who were abused by their spouses.
I might've been more useful to them.

 

[Kathryn]

1) I don't believe in keeping an abusive spouse forever. Such marital customs are antiquated and dangerous.

2) Forgoing all others besides your spouse is perhaps prudent and wise if the abuser is - here's that word again - dangerous. I'd consider survival instinct to trump the pursuit of happiness card as the wiser choice unless or until proper safeguards are in place.

3) As far as I'm concerned, the marriage is null and void once there are clear and present steps taken to dissolve the contract. A separation, then, is a step in that direction, and provides each member a buffer, however large or small, to seek enjoyment with someone else.

Just my two cents.

Excellent advice. I totally agree.

 

[Kathryn]

When are you going to stop making my simple observation that you do not have scientific corroboration for your opinion that few people leave abusive relationships for other people -- when, if ever, are you going to stop trying to turn that observation into an attack on your entire career? Today? Tomorrow? Never?

What on earth are you talking about, Sunstone?

I offered my personal opinion, observations and advice. As far as I can tell, that's all ANYONE has done so far on this thread. I have never claimed to have any sort of "scientific corroboration for my opinion." On this thread in particular, I don't see any evidence that ANYONE, yourself included, has offered any "scientific corroboration" to bolster their personal opinions and advice.

Therefore I find it odd that it's suddenly an issue when I state my opinions, observations, and advice. It wasn't an issue till I stepped in.

I just think that's sort of weird.

As for "an attack on my career," - wow, that's a really odd statement that I can't make any sense of. My career is in banking. What on earth are you talking about?

Sunstone, it's pretty obvious that you often resort to personal digs when you're interacting with me. I'm just calling your hand on it.

 

[blackout]

1) I don't believe in keeping an abusive spouse forever. Such marital customs are antiquated and dangerous.

2) Forgoing all others besides your spouse is perhaps prudent and wise if the abuser is - here's that word again - dangerous. I'd consider survival instinct to trump the pursuit of happiness card as the wiser choice unless or until proper safeguards are in place.

3) As far as I'm concerned, the marriage is null and void once there are clear and present steps taken to dissolve the contract. A separation, then, is a step in that direction, and provides each member a buffer, however large or small, to seek enjoyment with someone else.

Just my two cents.

Children and lack of finances
can make anything but an "in home" separation impossible.

Unfortunately "in home" separations are not so clear cut
to the rest of the 'outside' world.

 

[Revoltingest]

Children and lack of finances
can make anything but an "in home" separation impossible.
Unfortunately "in home" separations are not so clear cut
to the rest of the 'outside' world.

Sounds rough.
Don't ever let it get you down to the point where you lose the purple pixie posting style.
(I need to see it for my mental health too.)

 

[Kathryn]

Children and lack of finances
can make anything but an "in home" separation impossible.

Unfortunately "in home" separations are not so clear cut
to the rest of the 'outside' world.

I agree that children and finances complicate things immensely. And you do have to plan your exit carefully, for a number of reasons, from financial to safety issues.

Whenever we stay in relationships that are abusive (either mentally, physically, or emotionally) we are staying because in spite of the abuse, we're getting something out of that relationship. In many cases, that "something" is financial. Often though, fear of the unknown keeps us in situations because in spite of the perils and stresses, those are at least familiar and we know how to navigate that situation. We've worked it out - or so we think.

What a way to live. Once I escaped it, I realized just how stymied and sad and self-denying it really was.

I'm not judging you. What I am saying is that I stayed in that sort of relationship for far too long myself. I had several opportunities to get out, but I couldn't imagine that I would be able to do so. The truth is, though, that I did not take advantage of programs which could have helped me escape. I wasn't ready yet to wreak havoc on my life. Instead I lived reactively rather than proactively for many years - to the detriment of myself and my children. I excused this by saying I was doing so in order to keep some sort of stability in their lives. What a sorry excuse for stability it was - a roof over their heads in exchange for an abusive father.

That's my story - not saying it's yours. I'm just sharing this with you in the hope that it helps you.

 

[Koldo]

Koldo, it seems possible to me that what's at issue here has escaped you. So let me try to lay out for you at least my understanding of it. I said, in effect, that in my experience many -- perhaps most -- people in abusive relationships left only after they had found someone to leave their abusive relationship for. Now, that's been my experience of it.

Actually, i missed the part where you said you have a personal experience related to abused women. It would be worth to say how extensive such experience is.

Kathryn came back and said, in effect, that in her experience of it, that was not the case and that most people in abusive relationships left without having found someone to leave their abusive relationship for. Fair enough. I believe Kathryn when she says that has been her experience.

But then I responded to the effect that neither her experience nor mine could really answer the question since neither of us had performed well conducted peer reviewed science on the issue.

Kathryn then --- apparently --- came back with the notion that because her personal experience is extensive and, because a newspaper has asked her to write about her personal experience, that her opinions have the weight of conclusions reached through well conducted, peer reviewed research. Maybe I misunderstood her, but that's how I interpret her remarks in the context of our discussion.

So, I responded to the effect, "Nice try, but I'm not buying that your opinion carries the same weight as science."

At which point, you seem to have chirped in by implying that her opinions, so far as you are concerned, do indeed carry the same weight as science -- at least to you.

Koldo, if I have misunderstood you, then I am sorry. But if I understood you correctly, then all I can say is you have amazed me.

At any rate, I'm thinking of dropping out of this thread now because it just gets stranger and stranger to me when people start claiming that their 45 or whatever years of experience at something should mean more to me than well conducted, peer reviewed science on the matter. So you can have the last word here, and I don't doubt that you will need it.

For a first, i would like to say that her experience does NOT carry the same weight as science. What i said is that nobody posted any peer reviewed science so far, and in such situations, i usually consider extensive personal experience as far more relevant than a random opinion from someone else, including me.

 

[newhope101]

If ones husband is abusive and the wife cheats it will just make a bad situation worse. This is no solution. If in your heart you wish to cheat, perhaps hubby's abuse is not the only problem within the relationship.

One can also look into their own responsibility, however if you are not happy then you are not. The impact on abuse on children just overhearing DV, is huge. If kids are involved you must sort this out or leave for their long-term interests. DV in front of children, even if they are away in a bedroom affects them hugely. In Australia ongoing DV is sufficient to bring children into care due to the long-term impact on their mental health. An impact that can last for life, affect their attachment style for life and may result in their inability to form long lasting close emotional relationships.

If the poster is speaking to extreme domestic violence, then you need to exit the relationship. This is easier said than done.

I knew a girl in an extremely violent situation. She was too scared to leave for fear of her and her kids life. She had been isolated from the community as per usual profile, had no access to money, and was watched. We made a plan. She took her kiddies to preschool but we had prearranged a plan to take her to a shelter with the kids in another town. That evening she called her husband and prearrranged to meet him at a park 'to talk'. Of course he was apologetic, again the usual profile, in this situation. They did not meet at the park. Rather, she and I attended her home with the police while she took her and the childrens belongings, went to the real estate and explained the situation as she was renting, then left.

This was her third attempt to leave. Many have to go through such attempts before they are confident enough to push forward. She had to learn the hard way that her husband was not going to change despite his ongoing promises to do so. In fact the abuse got worse. This is also usual. She had to be strong. She no longer was going to let herself be manipulated and threatened. She had finally made her mind over. This lass is happy now. She gained confidence over time and started over. Not easy but so much better than living in ongoing misery despite the life style she had to leave behind. The kids are showing attachment disorders, and are attending play therapy and making great gains. This father hurt these children, he was charged, and has no contact with the kids.

Is the relationship worth seeking counselling over or not? Does the husband take any responsibility for the situation at all? If not, the relationship is over...get out.

If dad is great with the kids, keep up the contact. Bad husbands are not always bad dads. If you think he will abscond with the children or use them against you, which is often the case, go see a lawyer immediately to discuss the protection available in your state.

Don't cheat..paybacks are not going to fix this and can only make it worse.


Australian Institute of Criminology - Emerging issues in domestic/family violence research

 

[blackout]

I agree that children and finances complicate things immensely. And you do have to plan your exit carefully, for a number of reasons, from financial to safety issues.

Whenever we stay in relationships that are abusive (either mentally, physically, or emotionally) we are staying because in spite of the abuse, we're getting something out of that relationship. In many cases, that "something" is financial. Often though, fear of the unknown keeps us in situations because in spite of the perils and stresses, those are at least familiar and we know how to navigate that situation. We've worked it out - or so we think.

What a way to live. Once I escaped it, I realized just how stymied and sad and self-denying it really was.

I'm not judging you. What I am saying is that I stayed in that sort of relationship for far too long myself. I had several opportunities to get out, but I couldn't imagine that I would be able to do so. The truth is, though, that I did not take advantage of programs which could have helped me escape. I wasn't ready yet to wreak havoc on my life. Instead I lived reactively rather than proactively for many years - to the detriment of myself and my children. I excused this by saying I was doing so in order to keep some sort of stability in their lives. What a sorry excuse for stability it was - a roof over their heads in exchange for an abusive father.

That's my story - not saying it's yours. I'm just sharing this with you in the hope that it helps you.

The man that I do not share a room with,
who happens to also live here in my house
is not in any "relationship" with me.

Staying in a house,
does not equate "Staying in a relationship".

 

[Kathryn]

I'm not accusing you of anything, UV. You have your own life to live, and your own children to answer to at some point, if not already, If you feel that their needs are best met by sharing a house with this man, that's your call. I don't know enough about what your alternatives are or what your situation is to judge it, and even if I did, it wouldn't be my place unless you asked me for help - or unless your children were in imminent danger.