• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

If Your Spouse Is Abusive, Is It OK To Cheat?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Here's a tough question for you:

If your spouse abuses you and/or your children, are you still bound by your marriage vows? Specifically:

(1) Must you still keep your spouse forever? Why or why not?

(2) Must you still forgo all others besides your spouse? Why or why not?

(3) When does a marriage end? When are the vows null and void? When one partner (i.e. the abusive spouse) first breaks the marriage vows, or marriage contract, by abusing the other partner and/or the kids, or does it end only when a court of law says it ends? Why?

And, to make this interesting, please keep in mind while answering the questions that life is seldom black and white. In other words, a manipulative, abusive partner might also be a good provider, for instance, just as a manipulated, abused spouse is unlikely to be lily white, either.
 
Last edited:

Alceste

Vagabond
I don't see any reason to stay with a person who is abusive toward me, no matter what. But I'm a leaver, not a cheater. If I were with a man who abused me physically I'd immediately leave and never look back. If he abused children (anyone's, but especially mine), I'd do my damnedest to put him in jail.

I wonder, though, why you would ask whether cheating is morally permissible in this situation? Violating my own ethical standards is never "permissible" in any situation. It happens, but it isn't "permissible". Also, in an abusive relationship cheating is pragmatic: the mistrust and tension that flourishes in an atmosphere of dishonesty is more likely to cause the abuse to escalate than it is to put a stop to it.

I would say it is OK to cheat if you are dealing with a partner who is withholding sex over a long period of time, who has been advised of your needs and the likely consequences of not making an effort to "get back in the saddle", and who refuses to discuss the problem.

I'm a moral pragmatist. When I see a problem, I look for a solution. Cheating is not a solution for the problem of physical or emotional abuse. Therapy is, maybe, and dumping the b@$+@rd certainly is.
 
Last edited:

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
Cheating is always wrong. However, abuse is always wrong, too.

If he (or she) is abusive, pack your stuff and leave. Cheating dishonors yourself and the vows you took. No need to lower yourself.

I have a strong opinion on this because I consider cheating/betrayal to be the blackest thing a human being can do to another. To go out, sleaze around, then come home and look their spouse right in the eye and answer, "I love you too," puts me a blind rage so hot that I don't even have to know the persons involved for it to infuriate me.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Here's a tough question for you:

If your spouse abuses you and/or your children, are you still bound by your marriage vows? Specifically:

(1) Must you still keep your spouse forever? Why or why not?

(2) Must you still forgo all others besides your spouse? Why or why not?

(3) When does a marriage end? When are the vows null and void? When one partner (i.e. the abusive spouse) first breaks the marriage vows, or marriage contract, by abusing the other partner and/or the kids, or does it end only when a court of law says it ends? Why?

And, to make this interesting, please keep in mind while answering the questions that life is seldom black and white. In other words, a manipulative, abusive partner might also be a good provider, for instance, just as a manipulated, abused spouse is unlikely to be lily white, either.

Abusive partnerships are by definition unhealthy. Whether the abuser is a good provider or not, that does not justify their abuse, nor is it sufficient justification for the victim to force themselves to remain married to their abuser.

If one's partner is abusive, and is unwilling to seriously and wholeheartedly confront that problem, enter psychotherapy and anger management therapy, take psychopharmaceutical therapy if indicated, kick any addictions that may contribute to the abusive behavior, and seek spiritual counseling and/or join a support group to help them turn themselves around and stop abusing, then one ought to leave one's abusive spouse as soon as possible. End of story.

However seriously one may take marriage vows, no vow should require one to sacrifice one's physical, mental, and emotional safety forever-- or even for very long at all. And I will never believe that choosing to remain married to one's abuser is somehow holier or more virtuous than having enough respect for oneself as a creation of God who deserves safety and well-being, and leaving the abuser.

To answer your specific questions:

1. One is bound by one's marriage vows until one has reason to get divorced. Upon divorce, one is no longer bound by those vows. But even before divorce, an abuse victim should separate themselves from the abuser, leave them, and wait in safety elsewhere for the divorce to come through.

2. One should not have sex with anyone but one's wedded spouse until divorced. Abuse absolutely warrants leaving one's abusive spouse and filing for the fastest divorce possible. But a high moral standard also warrants not taking the miserable failing of one's abusive spouse as an excuse to become an adulterer. Now, in cases where one has been married both in a religion, and civilly, my opinion is that whichever divorce is finalized first, religious or civil, is sufficient to consider the marriage ended and any ensuing sexual relations not to be adulterous.

3. Marriage ends when divorce occurs. Religious marriage ends when the religious divorce occurs; civil marriage ends when the civil divorce occurs. If one wanted one's relationship to be bound solely by one's own whims-- endable at a moment's notice, merely upon decision of either party-- then one should not get married. To get married is to widen the scope of the relationship from involving two parties, to involving three or more parties: the two spouses, the government, God (if it is a religious marriage), or other parties (in Jewish marriage, for example, that would be the Jewish People, one's community). One makes public commitments, formal and/or legal contractual promises. That means that the relationship can only be ended just as formally with a dissolution of that contract, and a public renunciation of the commitments of the two parties.
 

kai

ragamuffin
If your spouse is abusive don't cheat, get out. Cheating will only make things worse. leave them asap.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It's a nice theory to say one should get out of a marriage before cheating, but let's talk real life: How often does someone leave an abusive marriage without a life line laid out to them and firmly in their hands? I'm sure some people take the jump without anyone waiting for them, but how often is that?
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
It's a nice theory to say one should get out of a marriage before cheating, but let's talk real life: How often does someone leave an abusive marriage without a life line laid out to them and firmly in their hands? I'm sure some people take the jump without anyone waiting for them, but how often is that?

Ask the last two girlfriends of mine that cheated on me and me having found out the hard way. On the first, I was gone in literally 30 minutes and never went back. The other, the very next day.

My life is timed and finite. Time is valuable because I can never get it back. Ergo, I don't waste my time on valueless things. I have enough negativity in my life. Whatever negativity I can remove, I do so. Quickly.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It's a nice theory to say one should get out of a marriage before cheating, but let's talk real life: How often does someone leave an abusive marriage without a life line laid out to them and firmly in their hands? I'm sure some people take the jump without anyone waiting for them, but how often is that?

It seems to me that you are effectively asking how often people act in emotional turmoil and create a need for forgiving themselves.
 

kai

ragamuffin
I think it's always ok to cheat. But I think that in the huge majority of cases it's cowardly not to own up to it.
I think cheating is a sign of something wrong not a thing wrong in itself.

Ah Stephen you head may be too easily turned by a pretty face. some times you have to show self control and have to so no. I know the girls in Ireland are the prettiest ( i know i married one) but no need to gorge yourself theres love,loyalty, family, etc etc and of course theres the do unto others thing.
 
Last edited:

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
It seems to me that you are effectively asking how often people act in emotional turmoil and create a need for forgiving themselves.

Poppycock! Marriage is a legal contract. A legal contract is broken the moment either party breaks it -- and not the moment the courts rules that it was broken. If you break your contract with me to deliver 5000 widgets to my loading dock by 5 PM Thursday, and you fail to do so, then our contract was legally broken at 5:01 PM Thursday, and not several months later when the judge rules it was broken.

In marriage, when you abuse your spouse, you break your vows and your marriage contract then -- not months or years later when a judge says the divorce is final. There is no court on earth that would hold me responsible for paying you for widgets I didn't receive. And there is no court on earth that should hold me responsible for having an affair after my spouse broke our marriage contract by abusing me.

It is utter poppycock to say that someone who has been abused still has a moral or legal burden to honor his or her marriage contract. Or even a burden to forgive themselves. If you don't get those widgets to me as you promised by 5 PM Thursday, I certainly am not going to need to forgive myself when I go find your competitor and order a ship load of the same widgets from him. Why would I feel a need to forgive myself if it was you who broke our contract?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Ask the last two girlfriends of mine that cheated on me and me having found out the hard way. On the first, I was gone in literally 30 minutes and never went back. The other, the very next day.

My life is timed and finite. Time is valuable because I can never get it back. Ergo, I don't waste my time on valueless things. I have enough negativity in my life. Whatever negativity I can remove, I do so. Quickly.

I'm not sure I understand how what you're talking about here has anything to do with the OP. Are you saying you abused your last two girlfriends, thus contractually freeing them to "cheat" on you? Please clarify.
 

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
What's the definition of abuse here and the definition of cheating? It seems like some of the comments indicate isolated events that happened in a vacuum, and I see an astounding lack of imagination for the spectrum of situations that occur. Couples don't merrily plug along in life until one day one partner smacks the other, at which point the abused partner promptly leaves for a magical abuse-free new life. And it's great that everyone here is so self-aware from a very young age with appropriate parenting and societal support to detect potentially abusive people and not marry them. But some are not that self-aware. The very people who should not marry are usually folks who aren't aware they shouldn't.

An article I read said that while 90% of people surveyed strongly disapproved of extra-marital affairs, approximately 30 to 40% surveyed had them. The overlap demonstrates our self-serving bias. It's wrong if you have an affair (and you're probably selfish and lack self-control), but if I do, I have damn good reason.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
IMO, if you cheat on an abusive spouse and they find out or vice versa...........chances are your life may be in very big danger. Maybe it's just TV, but when I watch on the ID channel about murder of spouses, it usually ends up that one or the other was having an affair.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Poppycock! Marriage is a legal contract.

That is not at all what I was talking about, however. The legal contract is needed due to interactions with outside society, but I thought we were talking about the marriage itself, as defined by an understanding of mutual duty and expectations between two people.

(...)

In marriage, when you abuse your spouse, you break your vows and your marriage contract then -- not months or years later when a judge says the divorce is final. There is no court on earth that would hold me responsible for paying you for widgets I didn't receive. And there is no court on earth that should hold me responsible for having an affair after my spouse broke our marriage contract by abusing me.

True, but I thought we were talking about affairs that happened before the formal end of a marriage? What am I missing here?


It is utter poppycock to say that someone who has been abused still has a moral or legal burden to honor his or her marriage contract.

Of course.


Or even a burden to forgive themselves.

I was talking about forgiving oneself for not doing quite the best things possible while under the effect of an unhappy, troubling marriage.


If you don't get those widgets to me as you promised by 5 PM Thursday, I certainly am not going to need to forgive myself when I go find your competitor and order a ship load of the same widgets from him. Why would I feel a need to forgive myself if it was you who broke our contract?

You wouldn't, of course. I basically agreed with that.

Not that I find the parallel quite perfect, mind you. In a marriage (or my conception of one, anyway) some degree of good will, flexibility and understanding is a must.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Here's a tough question for you:

If your spouse abuses you and/or your children, are you still bound by your marriage vows? Specifically:

(1) Must you still keep your spouse forever? Why or why not?

(2) Must you still forgo all others besides your spouse? Why or why not?

(3) When does a marriage end? When are the vows null and void? When one partner (i.e. the abusive spouse) first breaks the marriage vows, or marriage contract, by abusing the other partner and/or the kids, or does it end only when a court of law says it ends? Why?

And, to make this interesting, please keep in mind while answering the questions that life is seldom black and white. In other words, a manipulative, abusive partner might also be a good provider, for instance, just as a manipulated, abused spouse is unlikely to be lily white, either.

What do you mean by "abuse"?
Cheating on your spouse surely won't solve the problem, and , in fact, it may make your spouse even more aggressive if he finds out.
Leaving is usually the best choice, and depending on the degree of abuse, you are better off looking for the police's aid.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
Ah Stephen you head may be too easily turned by a pretty face. some times you have to show self control and have to so no. I know the girls in Ireland are the prettiest ( i know i married one) but no need to gorge yourself theres love,loyalty, family, etc etc and of course theres the do unto others thing.
lol :D

I'm not interested in cheating because I'm in love with a very pretty girl for twenty odd years.
My point is that if I were interested in cheating there's be nothing wrong with that in itself but it would show that I wasn't in love and I would be a coward if I didn't own up to it.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It's a nice theory to say one should get out of a marriage before cheating, but let's talk real life: How often does someone leave an abusive marriage without a life line laid out to them and firmly in their hands? I'm sure some people take the jump without anyone waiting for them, but how often is that?
Good point. It could be that what starts as "cheating" could be the start of the new supportive relationship that helps the abuse victim leave the abusive relationship.

I'm a bit hesitant to speak out against any relationship that might help to support an abuse victim and allow him/her to leave the abusive relationship.

Poppycock! Marriage is a legal contract. A legal contract is broken the moment either party breaks it -- and not the moment the courts rules that it was broken. If you break your contract with me to deliver 5000 widgets to my loading dock by 5 PM Thursday, and you fail to do so, then our contract was legally broken at 5:01 PM Thursday, and not several months later when the judge rules it was broken.

In marriage, when you abuse your spouse, you break your vows and your marriage contract then -- not months or years later when a judge says the divorce is final. There is no court on earth that would hold me responsible for paying you for widgets I didn't receive. And there is no court on earth that should hold me responsible for having an affair after my spouse broke our marriage contract by abusing me.
Morally, I'd tend to agree. Legally... I leave that question to the lawyers.

Also, it may very well not be clear-cut: was the "cheating" a response to the abuse? Or did it start before? With the issue of the widgets, you could show a judge your signed contract for 5000 widgets, your cancelled cheque to the widget company, your receiving department's logbook showing no widget truck arrivals, and your audited inventory report showing no widgets in your warehouse. Most marriages aren't documented like this.

It is utter poppycock to say that someone who has been abused still has a moral or legal burden to honor his or her marriage contract. Or even a burden to forgive themselves. If you don't get those widgets to me as you promised by 5 PM Thursday, I certainly am not going to need to forgive myself when I go find your competitor and order a ship load of the same widgets from him. Why would I feel a need to forgive myself if it was you who broke our contract?
Actually, from what I can remember from my "law for engineers" class, it gets hazy. If time wasn't "of the essence" of the contract, then there can be some wiggle-room - hence why many contracts have rather cryptic phrases like "for this contract, time shall be of the essence". If I get them to you by Friday morning, I may very well be considered to have substantially upheld my end of the contract if time wasn't "of the essence".

And it depends on how they were promised. If the "5 PM Thursday" promise wasn't made as a condition of the sale but as a later commitment by the widget company, it could very well be considered a gratuitous promise and therefore not normally binding on the person making it.

On top of this, while you can order widgets from another company if you like, there are many factors that might prevent you from getting your cheque back from that first company.

Poppycock! now theres a word not used often enough.
Balderdash! :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: kai

chinu

chinu
If Your Spouse Is Abusive, Is It OK To Cheat?
Sunstone, If it is ok to use the word "Cheat" in any sentence on the place of word "Sincere", Than--Yes!-- it is ok to cheat.
As i know you are good poet, so i think rest you can decide yourself.:)
If your spouse abuses you and/or your children, are you still bound by your marriage vows? Specifically:
(1) Must you still keep your spouse forever? Why or why not?
Is there any gurantee for the next one ? tell me ? i think one must try his/her level best to compormise, that's only one can do, otherwise the end we all know very well, or we also say it like this: "Nothing is in our hands above this ...:)
(2) Must you still forgo all others besides your spouse? Why or why not?
I did'nt understood this point, can you explain this again ?
(3) When does a marriage end? When are the vows null and void? When one partner (i.e. the abusive spouse) first breaks the marriage vows, or marriage contract, by abusing the other partner and/or the kids, or does it end only when a court of law says it ends? Why?
Sunstone, truely marrige is a need, not property, and one must understand this need deeply, truely what is the marriage for we say, Marriages are for the peoples, people are not for the Marriges.

Sunstone, Truely saying the marriage ends when one get married with "God"

And, to make this interesting, please keep in mind while answering the questions that life is seldom black and white. In other words, a manipulative, abusive partner might also be a good provider, for instance, just as a manipulated, abused spouse is unlikely to be lily white, either.
Good job sunstone, All this is the part of your deep wisdom till now, keep it up till the marriges end :)

_/\_
Chinu.
 
Top