• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

If you put your religious book away for a moment.

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Often in discussions, debates or other parts of RF one can experience that some people qoute from the chosen religious teaching they believe in. Whereas others often speak freely from their belief without the need of qoutes from religious teachings.

Question: How do you feel if you would not be allowed to use qoutes but only your own words and understanding to discuss a religious topic? In this kind of discussion it would be best if one used the phrase "in my understanding" before one answer the question.

Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?
 
Last edited:

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Many of us have no choice, as a lot of religions don't actually have holy books. Mine hasn't.
No ancient Egyptian texts are considered holy? I heard there are some neat ones discovered drawn on tombs and such. Not holy?
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Question: How do you feel if you would not be allowed to use qoutes but only your own words and understanding to discuss a religious topic? In this kind of discussion i would be best if one used the phrase "in my understanding" before one answer the question.

Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?
I think I might do alright. Sometimes it's hard tracking down relevant quotes. :sweatsmile:
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?

i think initially people do present what they believe freely, its only when they are challenged do they turn to authoritative Scripture or religious teaching in defense of their initial statement.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
No ancient Egyptian texts are considered holy? I heard there are some neat ones discovered drawn on tombs and such. Not holy?
They are but not in the way one would pick up a Sefer Torah or a Qur'an. They also don't appear to be considered immutable and unchangeable. There's no one collection of holy writings that lay out a standardised theology. You won't see them being quoted by the man in the street, essentially. Each temple had its own individual lection and theologies. There's Theban theology, Memphite theology and so on, as I think many folks are aware. But no, within the Kemetic community there's certainly no one holy text everyone looks to. Even incredibly popular mythologies such as the Osir Myth are not universally accepted, as while in that myth Heru/Horus is seen as the son of Osir and Aset, in earlier myths he's depicted as the son of various other couples. Same with Amun - in one theology he's the self-made Creator, in others he's one of the Ogdoad with a twin, Amaunet. This alongside the fact that various Gods can merge with other Gods, which requires a new understanding, it's just too flexible for an overarching 'This is the deal' text. So yes, while there are texts that are holy, there are none that have what I'd describe as universal application in the Kemetic community as is and they don't seem to be the be-all-end-all.
 
Last edited:

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?

I think I'm articulate enough to explain everything with my own words, but if I want to tell people that the Bible says something, without the book, it would only be my word and they might think I'm making stuff up. Being able to open the book/app, allows me to show them what I'm saying in the scriptures.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I think I'm articulate enough to explain everything with my own words, but if I want to tell people that the Bible says something, without the book, it would only be my word and they might think I'm making stuff up. Being able to open the book/app, allows me to show them what I'm saying in the scriptures.
From what i have read of your previous OP and posts i have to say i think you would be very good in your answers without the bible next to you :) to me it seems like Jehovah`s Witness do know their bible very well. I have spoken to many JW where i live, and it is very seldom i see they take the bible to check them self in what they say, only if i ask where in the bibel it is written will they pull the bible out to show me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vee

MatthewA

Active Member
Hello Conscious Thoughts,

The more practice, and the more you learn about ~ for example ~ Christianity; the more a persons faith grows when they read, and learn about the promises of God, and the Lord Jesus Christ. There are many scriptures which have numbers beside them, along with the chapter number. That people can go and look and see what - in the Christian religion is true -. However when it comes to - Christianity, it is very broad and has many different people who believe in the bible differently.

My encouragement is to look at the book of the bible as a history book, with real places, and real people, and some things are literal, and some things are a metaphor. Always ask who, what, when, why, how, about everything that is being read, and the bible itself seems to answer it's own questions though the answers are so deep with-in the book itself it actually takes time and practice to be able to know, and remember what is and has been said especially when it comes down to the bible particularly.

So when it comes to learning about scriptures; in the bible; if you remember them you will be reminded of the truth of what the context is saying, and who was talked to, and also ask yourself what does it mean for us today, when looking at the scriptures.

That is all that can be said on my own end, and for what little it is worth hope it helps understand why practice is a good thing at least when it comes to remember what has been said when it comes to something someone has told you, or something you have learned to do with your own two hands, or something that you have read and can think back and recall in your memory what is the truth, does this work with what is being worked with.


~ Am open to listen to other people and whatever they may have to quote; from their own scriptures (Especially when it something different than that bible) but just sharing a verse or two, wont help me very much cause of not understanding maybe a persons perspective, which can be respectful of them if they desire to look into and practice whatever it is they desire. No judgement here.
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
From what i have read of your previous OP and posts i have to say i think you would be very good in your answers without the bible next to you :) to me it seems like Jehovah`s Witness do know their bible very well. I have spoken to many JW where i live, and it is very seldom i see they take the bible to check them self in what they say, only if i ask where in the bibel it is written will they pull the bible out to show me.

We study regularly so most things end up in our memories :)
 

TSTS

Member
@Conscious thoughts

"In my understanding" :) ,

Like i was telling you in your other thread, if the "understanding" is from within and one's own, that is they aren't speaking from what they have read or heard, then obviously their expressions are going to be unique to them. Furthermore, it would be very difficult to refute them as they will be aware of every facet of what they are speaking about/on.

But i realize you are talking about believers and unbelievers, (both rooted in acquired beliefs), so maybe what i am saying doesn't apply?....
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I think I'm articulate enough to explain everything with my own words, but if I want to tell people that the Bible says something, without the book, it would only be my word and they might think I'm making stuff up. Being able to open the book/app, allows me to show them what I'm saying in the scriptures.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't believe you and others are making stuff up. Actually, to be honest, use your experiences and interpretations to support the bible rather than the other way around. I think more people connect and trust you when its more from your experiences. From a non-believer perspective. If talking about theology, go for it.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
@Conscious thoughts

"In my understanding" :) ,

Like i was telling you in your other thread, if the "understanding" is from within and one's own, that is they aren't speaking from what they have read or heard, then obviously their expressions are going to be unique to them. Furthermore, it would be very difficult to refute them as they will be aware of every facet of what they are speaking about/on.

But i realize you are talking about believers and unbelievers, (both rooted in acquired beliefs), so maybe what i am saying doesn't apply?....
Your reply is just as valid as other who have answered @TSTS
I believe that to be able to hold our own understanding of the teaching is what make us develop wisdom from within, and if we blindly rely only on the scripture we will not fully be able to excel spiritually.

But everyone here will have their understanding of what is right way to practice for them. so my answer is not put in concrete as the only true answer :)
 

TSTS

Member
Thank you kind sir
believe that to be able to hold our own understanding of the teaching is what make us develop wisdom from within, and if we blindly rely only on the scripture we will not fully be able to excel spiritually.

Well, DUH to the second sentence.

In regards to the first, i will respectfully disagree. You are talking about conformity. Wisdom (whatever it may be) isn't conformity. Not in the sense i have been talking about.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Thank you kind sir


Well, DUH to the second sentence.

In regards to the first, i will respectfully disagree. You are talking about conformity. Wisdom (whatever it may be) isn't conformity. Not in the sense i have been talking about.
I speak only from my own understanding of spiritual lifestyle or religious practice, nothing else. Wisdom i speak of is the inner understanding of the teaching from the religion one choose to follow.

And it is no problem you disagree with me
 

TSTS

Member
Wisdom i speak of is the inner understanding of the teaching from the religion one choose to follow

Right, this is called conformity. First one chooses an ideology, whether materialistic or spiritual, and then tries to mold themselves to the prescribed pattern/mold.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Right, this is called conformity. First one chooses an ideology, whether materialistic or spiritual, and then tries to mold themselves to the prescribed pattern/mold.
This is not the way i have come to know the sufi way of spiritual lifestyle :) there is no molding, but to use the teaching to realise our inner struggle and how we can end the struggle from within. That will be different from person to person. so no mold needed.
 

TSTS

Member
Sir, this is very simple observation, irrespective of the Sufi path, or the christian path, or the atheist path etc, Let's not get caught in that trap of "paths" and look at facts.

What i am saying is nothing separate from what the choosers of paths do. Let's use the example pf your path. You first choose the Sufi path as being the best path for you, right. Then you started studying the teachings. Then you started to follow the given instructions. Then you try to be "better" in your practices and your reasoning, and so on. This, my friend, is called conformity, or trying to fit into the prescribed mold.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Often in discussions, debates or other parts of RF one can experience that some people qoute from the chosen religious teaching they believe in. Whereas others often speak freely from their belief without the need of qoutes from religious teachings.

Question: How do you feel if you would not be allowed to use qoutes but only your own words and understanding to discuss a religious topic? In this kind of discussion i would be best if one used the phrase "in my understanding" before one answer the question.

Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?

Well said! There is something always calming and good in your posts. May Thor protect you up there in Norway:)
 
Top