If you make over 75,000 a year, are you rich?

[Reverend Rick]

I know you're not describing everyone...that's the problem: Everyone is having this problem. If everyone who was struggling followed what you call "pragmatic realism" because they were have a hard time trying to live here in Los Angeles, you wouldn't have a city left.

You make that sound like a bad thing T.

I know a retired lady in Westchester who lives in a 1000 square foot home with two bedrooms sitting on a postage stamp lot. Her house is worth over a million and she is struggling living on a pension and social security. In fact, she is a millionaire.

She could move elsewhere and be retired comfortably. I have spent many times on the west coast. I just don't get it. :sorry1:

 

[Mister_T]

You make that sound like a bad thing T.

I know a retired lady in Westchester who lives in a 1000 square foot home with two bedrooms sitting on a postage stamp lot. Her house is worth over a million and she is struggling living on a pension and social security. In fact, she is a millionaire.

She could move elsewhere and be retired comfortably. I have spent many times on the west coast. I just don't get it. :sorry1:

Rick you're not getting it because that's not what I'm talking about: I'm not talking about long time home owners who are sitting on their equity. I'm talking about people who were attempting to buy a house after the real estate boom, which make up the majority of current California home owners. Most people like your friend, sold their home, picked up and moved out of state a long time ago, when the getting was good.


This is the group of homeowners I'm refering to: The reason so many houses were bought and are now being forclosed is because so many home owners sold their property when they realized they were millionares. The problem now though the people who bought these million dollar home have to come up with million-dollar-home-mortgage payments, property tax and interest rates which they could not afford.....which is why the average length of time on a mortagage in Califonia was 40 years. Since most homeowners in California can't afford such a thing, their houses are in forclosure.

This scenario I just described is your average California home owner Rick. Your friend is in the minority.

 

[Fluffy]

If life gives you lemons, sell lemonade. If people say they can't afford to save, I say you can't afford not to. There is always a way out of a bad situation. If you can't afford to move, start saving for a bus ticket.

This is indeed a tried and tested method for getting yourself out of poverty.

 

[nutshell]

Rick, how do you save when you don't have enough to make ends meet at the end of the month?

 

[nutshell]

I encourage people to find and watch "30 Days: Minimum Wage"

30 Days: Minimum Wage - TV.com

Here's another description:

Minimum Wage: Working Poor for 30 Days

I really really suggest people watching this. It's entertaining and informational.

 

[Starfish]

We Americans are rich in the eyes of much of the world. It's good to be reminded of that. Wealth comes from what you do with your money, rather than your income.

I'm extremely rich, and my wealth has nothing to do with money.

 

[nutshell]

We Americans are rich in the eyes of much of the world. It's good to be reminded of that. Wealth comes from what you do with your money, rather than your income.

I'm extremely rich, and my wealth has nothing to do with money.

So does a person in the working poor class who cannot make ends meet at the end of the month extremely rich too?

 

[Starfish]

So does a person in the working poor class who cannot make ends meet at the end of the month extremely rich too?

Well, to someone who doesn't even have a roof over their head, or is in danger of being assaulted at any moment, you might seem so. There's always someone worse off, who would happily trade places.

When my son returned home from 2 years in Ecuador, he walked around our middle-class house in quiet awe. He said where he had been, 5 families would live in a house like ours.

 

[Somkid]

Well, I made more than that in Philadelphia 5 years ago it was ok money but I wasn't rich. I managed to save enough money to move to Thailand, buy a house, car, motorcycle and start my life over again in general. Now, I make about $25,000 per year here but I have national health care so I don't even pay for medications, there is no such thing as property tax so my house is free and clear, the prices of things here are with in reasonable tolerance rates as far as what something should "really" cost not Wall Streets inflated middle man prices. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm better off on $25,000 a year than $150,000 per year because the economy is with in the guidelines of realistic non-inflated prices.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Rick, how do you save when you don't have enough to make ends meet at the end of the month?

You want the truth nutshell? You abandon ship. You have a yard sale and spend the money on a bus ticket.

Seriously, people have to force themselves to save. You put a small amount away and don't touch it for any reason. It comes off the top or it will never happen. If you don't have enough at the end of the month, you bit off more than you can chew.

I bet you a dollar there is cable in the home right? How about a cell phone? Internet? Oh you have a computer and cannot pay your bills?

What are the real necessities? Food, water and shelter. Then clothes and shoes and toilet supplies. Dvds and TV is not a necessity.

 

[uss_bigd]

why ask?

 

[Magic Man]

You want the truth nutshell? You abandon ship. You have a yard sale and spend the money on a bus ticket.

Seriously, people have to force themselves to save. You put a small amount away and don't touch it for any reason. It comes off the top or it will never happen. If you don't have enough at the end of the month, you bit off more than you can chew.

I bet you a dollar there is cable in the home right? How about a cell phone? Internet? Oh you have a computer and cannot pay your bills?

What are the real necessities? Food, water and shelter. Then clothes and shoes and toilet supplies. Dvds and TV is not a necessity.

What if you absolutely have to touch it?

Being rich isn't equal to having luxuries. The middle class has luxuries, but only enough to make them "normal" in our society. Being rich requires more than just a "nice" house and a computer.

 

[Starfish]

You want the truth nutshell? You abandon ship. You have a yard sale and spend the money on a bus ticket.

Seriously, people have to force themselves to save. You put a small amount away and don't touch it for any reason. It comes off the top or it will never happen. If you don't have enough at the end of the month, you bit off more than you can chew.

I bet you a dollar there is cable in the home right? How about a cell phone? Internet? Oh you have a computer and cannot pay your bills?

What are the real necessities? Food, water and shelter. Then clothes and shoes and toilet supplies. Dvds and TV is not a necessity.

Wise advice. People existed a long time without what we consider necessary today.
There are probably some people who live in the humblest circumstances, and have nothing left to save. But the vast majority of us could cut some of our expenses if we were motivated enough.

Our church helps support the poor, often with month-to-month expenses. It's handled through our local clergy. One of our clergymen wouldn't give them anything until they cancelled their cable, internet, and sold many of their things including the 2nd car. Tough love.

 

[nutshell]

You want the truth nutshell? You abandon ship. You have a yard sale and spend the money on a bus ticket.

Many of these people don't even have a yard or anything to sell even if they did. Thus, they can't even afford a bus ticket, and even if they did, how will they pay for a new place? If they're moving then they must not have a job or gave up a job.

Seriously, people have to force themselves to save. You put a small amount away and don't touch it for any reason. It comes off the top or it will never happen. If you don't have enough at the end of the month, you bit off more than you can chew.

I'm sorry, Rick. You are wrong. You don't get it. There are people who don't bite off more than they can chew and can't make ends meet because the system is stacked against them.

I bet you a dollar there is cable in the home right? How about a cell phone? Internet? Oh you have a computer and cannot pay your bills?

Rick, we're not talking about me. We're talking about the working poor who DON'T have the things you mention above and still can't make ends meet.

What are the real necessities? Food, water and shelter. Then clothes and shoes and toilet supplies. Dvds and TV is not a necessity.

You have been betrayed by the myth of the welfare queen. For the last time, there are people who don't have the luxuries you mention and still can't make ends meet. The working poor, hungry children, the homeless...these are real domestic problems in our country and many are ignorant of this reality (either by choice or they really don't know yet). I can only hope you're the latter.

 

[nutshell]

Wise advice. People existed a long time without what we consider necessary today.
There are probably some people who live in the humblest circumstances, and have nothing left to save. But the vast majority of us could cut some of our expenses if we were motivated enough.

Our church helps support the poor, often with month-to-month expenses. It's handled through our local clergy. One of our clergymen wouldn't give them anything until they cancelled their cable, internet, and sold many of their things including the 2nd car. Tough love.

You too ignore the fact of the working poor - those who don't have these luxuries and still can't make ends meet.

 

[Mathematician]

Wise advice. People existed a long time without what we consider necessary today.

Needs change with the environment. Whereas seventy years ago most Americans could have lived comfortably without a car or multi-room apartment, today it would be near impossible for me to get to work without reliable (personal) transportation, and there aren't any single-room apartments.

Most people who are up to the eyeballs in debt are middle-class families, not the poor. Middle class living on the edge? - MSN Money

Furthemore, most of this debt is going towards home and school payments, not credit cards. Drowning in Debt

 

[DallasApple]

Needs change with the environment. Whereas seventy years ago most Americans could have lived comfortably without a car or multi-room apartment, today it would be near impossible for me to get to work without reliable (personal) transportation, and there aren't any single-room apartments.

Most people who are up to the eyeballs in debt are middle-class families, not the poor. Middle class living on the edge? - MSN Money

Not to change the subject..But check with Craigs list...The'yre more options on there ...... ..You might even consider renting a room..

I know how expensive apartments are around here..In Plano(where Im from) you cant find anything for under 7OO.OO thats decent.

If you go just a little south and look hard enough you start finding the same quality and size in the $500's ...

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Mathematician]

If you go just a little south and look hard enough you start finding the same quality and size in the $500's ...

$7,000 annual rent wipes out a huge chunk of most incomes. You also have to check up on additional costs: heating? phone line? television? With the cost of gasoline spiraling upwards, food and transportation will only deliver a stronger pinch on America's poor (and middle class). I don't even buy most of my food and I've spent about $1,000 on myself through groceries and fast food alone.

In this area making it on anything less than $15/hr would be tough. Average rent is about $800 for one person.

We live in the largest economy in the history of the world, and yet 35% (soon to be 40%) of adults past the age of 21 don't have a home, and most of the people who do are essentially paying rent to the banks. I don't know about others but I would like to grow up in a country where, if you're a working adult, your only concerns are non-essential commodity items and services.

Apartments, unless following ownership patterns found in cities like New York City, only serve to hinder social mobility. You're throwing money down a non-investment. For young adults fresh out of (or in) college there are few alternatives.

 

[DallasApple]

$6,000 annual rent wipes out a huge chunk of most incomes. You also have to check up on what the tenant provides for additional feeds: heating? phone line? television? With the cost of gasoline spiraling upwards, food and transportation will only deliver a stronger pinch on America's poor (and middle class). I don't even buy most of my food and I've spent about $1,000 on myself through groceries and fast food alone.

In this area making it on anything less than $15/hr would be tough. Average rent is about $800 for one person.

I understand completely..I have a son and his girlfriend is pregnant and I know how hard it is..Working full time at 9 or 10 an hour is about just enough to keep the roof.It really takes two incomes combined unless you are skilled and can demand more or know how to sell on commission ..Or work two jobs..

I was never "poor" but I started working when I was 15...saved my money while I lived with my parents..(I had a baby)..with the money I saved I had enough to put down on a house and my husband had esabllished good credit(I had not bad credit just none)..We together worked to pay the bills...Niether one of us at the time could have done it on our own..Gradually he got better jobs and more skilled at what he did ..We had another baby and it didnt even make sense for me to go to work..It would have almost all gone for childcare..Then another baby LOL!! He is in the computer industry got laid off over and over..(10 and so years ago)..Eventually we started our own business..(long story for another time)

Anyway..we bought this house 20 years ago and refinanced at a good rate..We only pay 750>00 a month right now for a 4 bedrroom 2 bath..1800 square ft..four people live here...

If we had to rent a house or an apartment???..It would be 1500 at least...

Thats what I would recommend to any young perosn now..Live at home as long as your can (reasonably that is not till you are 30 LOL)...Save your darn money dont get sucked into spending on cd's and games except modestly..Drive USED cars...Establish good credit history ..and buy a home of your own...

I only had to put about 4,000 down on this house..It was a foreclosure and needed some work but was in a very disereable area..of course we had two incomes to work with ...Together back then we made about 25,000 a year..

We paid 75,000 for this house and its now worth double that..

I wish you good luck..

Blessings

Dallas

 

[Starfish]

You too ignore the fact of the working poor - those who don't have these luxuries and still can't make ends meet.

Reread my post:
"There are probably some people who live in the humblest circumstances, and have nothing left to save."
What am I ignoring?

My son who was in Ecuador, mentioned that even in the poorest shack-like home, there'd always be a TV, and plenty of booze.

But yes, there are those who truly have nothing--but not that many in this country when compared to the rest of the world.