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Featured If you have read the bible, what primary lesson did you learn?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Feb 3, 2018.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    One of the greatest aspects of being raised Catholic is:

    1) They discourage you from reading the Bible . Catechism teacher used to tell us: "Children, don't read the Bible, you won't understand it. Read the catechism books instead."

    2) They tell you immediately that the OT is mostly mythology, then legends, and some historical events here and there.

    I read the "Bible for children" entirely as a kid. A book with beautiful drawings, which made me understand it was not that dissimilar to mythology books.
    I have always loved the Gospels, though
     
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  2. jonathan180iq

    jonathan180iq Well-Known Member

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    I had various feelings on the Bible, most associated with what I was told during my upbringing. I expected a lot more when I finally decided to read the whole thing.

    When I actually read it, I simply couldn't get past what felt like a mixture of bad narrative and slap-stick comedy. The New Testament alone should be seen as a sitcom by anyone born in the modern era. Whatever historical value there may be is over-shadowed by the obviously biased and purposeful retelling of events.
     
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  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    First of all, there was No slavery for Eden and All of Earth was to become an edenic paradisical Earth.
    I see what you are saying about the status of Hebrew slaves and Foreign ones.
    Yes, non-Hebrew ones remained in the property of the owner.
    I do see that if a Hebrew slave was given a 'foreign wife', even if he was freed, he could choose to say on.
    - as found at Exodus 21:2-6; Deuteronomy 15:16-17.
    Taking about beating does Not have to mean all slaves were beaten.
    Seems as if in the context of ' beating ' that was Not as in beaten using a lethal weapon, or lethal force, so if the master did Not intend to really harm or kill that could be taken that, since the slave did Not die, that his 'lingering' might Not have been the result of the beating. Whether in a servant or slave position, then that was in the hands of the judges to decide because of the law against such harm.
    - Exodus 21:20-21; Exodus 21:26-27; Leviticus 24:17-22; Numbers 35:16-17
    Being strangers or foreigners then slaves did No work on the Sabbath as per Exodus 20:10; Deuteronomy 5:14
    Even shared in other things as mentioned at Exodus 12:49; Leviticus 25:6; Deuteronomy 16:11-14.
    As to how one could know they were treated exactly as the ones in American prior to the Civil War I don't know.
    But I do know there is No slavery mentioned during Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
    Those who died before Jesus (John 3:13) will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to live a slave-free life forever. Then we will have more understanding as to why things were the way they were.
    In the meantime, we know King Solomon's words prove true that man has dominated man to man's hurt or man's injury - Ecclesiastes 8:9.
     
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  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If the OT is myth, then what Jesus believed and taught in the gospel accounts is also myth.
    Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written..." that means already written down in the OT Hebrews Scriptures. The gospel accounts have corresponding cross-reference verses or passages connected to the OT Hebrew Scriptures.
    Jesus taught that such Scripture is 'religious truth' at John 17:17.
     
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  5. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    I have learned that as a history book it is useless to my spiritual growth.
    If used as a mirror it has the potential to accelerate one's spiritual growth immensely.
     
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  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly true. During the millennium, the liars, immoral, etc. will reside outside the gate (Revelation 22:14-15), were you can be assured, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 24:51). The "strangers", will become servants to Jacob, and "serve them" (Isaiah14:1-2). The righteous who are resurrected, would reign for a 1000 years. That would preclude those with the mark of the beast (Revelation 20:4). We are at the "end of the age", and the only ones without "understanding" are the "wicked" (Daniel 12:10).
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find, liars, immoral, etc. end up in ' second death ' as per Revelation 21:8
    At the 'end of the thousand years' according to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 Jesus hands back God's kingdom to his God.

    Those who are part of the first or earlier resurrection reign with Christ for a thousand years as per Revelation 20:6.
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "day of the LORD" is a day of judgment, and precedes the millennium. That is when the "tares" and the "evil servant" are gathered "first" (Matthew 13:30) and are either "cut in pieces" (Mt 24:51) or thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:42), which is different from the "lake of fire". The "furnace of fire" precedes the millennium. The "wicked", your liars, and those with the "mark of the beast",etc. remain in their graves for 1000 years. Keep in mind, that the false prophet Paul is the leader of the tares, and although dead, his "demon spirit", still walks the earth (Revelation 16:13-19). The demon spirits need to gather the "kings of the whole world" to "Har-Magedon". What do you think Obama is doing following Trump around the world, and talking to world leaders? The demon spirits apparently haven't given up on hope and change.
     
  9. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    "First of all, there was No slavery for Eden and All of Earth was to become an edenic paradisical Earth."

    And originally there was no murder or theft in Eden either. But after the fall, God decided he needed to establish some rules, like DON'T MURDER OTHER PEOPLE and DON'T TAKE WHAT DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU. Rules that you'd expect a moral being to establish. However, this supposedly moral being did NOT bother to tell people DON'T OWN OTHER PEOPLE AS PROPERTY. Instead this supposedly moral God tells His people who they can own as property and that they are allowed to beat their slaves, just as long as they don't beat them to death. A genuinely moral God would have put THOU SHALT NOT OWN PEOPLE AS PROPERTY as one of the 10 Commandments.

    "Taking about beating does Not have to mean all slaves were beaten."

    No, and just because some slaves in America were beaten does not mean that all American slave owners beat their slaves. But does not beating your slave making owning them as slaves somehow moral? Is the only immoral part of slavery the fact that slave owners beat them? OF COURSE NOT! Denying a person their personal freedom and forcing them to labor for your benefit is WRONG, regardless of whether or not the slaves are beaten. I'm baffled as to how so many Christians can try and justify how God condoned a practice that modern day human beings see as being OBVIOUSLY immoral. If MY morals are superior to that of God then God does NOT deserve my worship.
     
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  10. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    To not believe everything you read.
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

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    I don't believe they did. However, it is in "God's book," that he drown them.
    I don't. I shouldn't even have to be explaining that. However, it remains "God's word." The very words that represent Jehovah. It's pretty cruel and malicious, evil and barbaric, vile and blood thirsty.

    To you, no doubt. But to me they are all equally fictitious.
     
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  12. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

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    There were only two people in Eden, and there is no Biblical evidence to support the rest of your claim.
    Regardless of how they are treated, owning another human being as property is wrong.
    Probably because it's a death sentence to work on the Sabbath.


    And that makes things better? And those verses don't mention sharing much. Except for the Sabbath must be observed.
     
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  13. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Only with how religious institutions interpret the Scriptures, to conform to their pre-conceived ideas.....Makes it a jumbled mess. But remove all these ideas from your mind when you read it....like with a clean slate....and it'll surprise you. It did, to me.

    Example: I'd always been told that all humans *have* a soul that's immortal. But the Bible doesn't say that!

    From BibleHub:

    King James Bible
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man *became* a living soul.


    New Heart English Bible
    The LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    ...and on and on, etc. .....


    JPS Tanakh 1917
    Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    Jubilee Bible 2000
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.


    King James 2000 Bible
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    American King James Version
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    American Standard Version
    And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    Douay-Rheims Bible
    And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.


    Darby Bible Translation
    And Jehovah Elohim formed Man, dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and Man became a living soul.


    English Revised Version
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    Webster's Bible Translation
    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    World English Bible
    Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    ****So the Bible teaches, not that we *have* souls, but that we *ARE* souls!****
    Totally different than what most churches teach.

    And what is a soul?
    Well, the following versions word Genesis 2:7 a little differently; they read:

    New Living Translation
    Then the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man's nostrils, and the man became a living person.

    Young's Literal Translation
    And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

    So the soul is the person himself, the creature.
    And something else not taught in **mainstream** Christendom:
    The soul dies!

    -- Ezekiel 18:4

    ....because we as persons die.
    Simple enough. What is true, as opposed to what is false, is almost always simpler to grasp and explain.

    Occam's Razor, eh?
     
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  14. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Alas, thou doth just put spittle upon my tablet!
     
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  15. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    So, do you think the history it presents is inaccurate? Acclaimed archaeologist Sir Frederic G. Kenyon thought otherwise. So did Isaac Newton.
     
  16. Serenity7855

    Serenity7855 Lambaster of the Angry Anti-Theists

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    Yet you do not believe in God so you cannot believe in His book. You, therefore, can not use a lie to prove another lie is true. Isn't that an oxymoron.
    .
    Anyway, I have to again question your understanding of Scripture and their intended purpose. The Bible is, in my opinion, the literal word of God. By exercising faith in God as you read its pages and live its principles and precepts, you can get closer to God as you strive to become like Him. That you too may become perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. It is not Gods book. He is already perfect, so, He needs no book to help Him attain perfection.

    I am sorry that you feel that way about a Book that you appear to disbelieve. You clearly have not read it without bias and wanting to know the truth. Why would you become so agitated in a book that seems to be a complete fallacy to you? My advice to you would be to steer clear of it and all things associated with it.

    I do not mean to construct a straw man, however, It is a bit like these words that you have written here and have then directed to me. Although you compiled them and then delivered them to me, via the media, they are intended for me to read and do with as I will. I now possess them. Just as God compiled these words and then used the Bible to convey them to me, to do with as I please. They are a gift to all of mankind. I know possess them.

    And that is absolutely fine. It is your right to either accept them or deny them. I just find it odd that you are critical of words you do not believe, to the point, where you attack them as though they have offended you, however, that would be like criticizing Robin Hoods acts of kindness knowing that He did not exist, you must admit, it is a little odd.
     
  17. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    Maybe he is disgusted at humanity. Humans are cruel and selfish animals after all.
     
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  18. TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

    TheBannerofHomuraAkemi Active Member

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    And you are free to believe that.
     
  19. ThePainefulTruth

    ThePainefulTruth Romantic-Cynic

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    That people will actually believe in thousands year old supernatural hearsay.
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Student People Stabber

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    Perhaps he should look at himself in a mirror.
     
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