Ah, yes. The "every man is a nation unto himself" defense.
I don't see anything beyond that as needed in this context.
Most patrons of strip clubs understand sex is not on offer.
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If you go to a strip club, do you expect to have sex?
- Thread starter Meow Mix
- Start date
I don't see anything beyond that as needed in this context.
Most patrons of strip clubs understand sex is not on offer.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Well, the original; discussion was about prostitution, not strip dancing. And this thread was just some silly questionnaire about expecting the dancers to have sex with the patrons, which of course does happen, even though they all proclaim loudly and profusely that it doesn't. At least not WHILE their dancing, anyway.
I don't see the connection between striping, sex, and prostitution if the former is seen as a business with no strings attached.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Trust me. No one suffers at all.
Great contests.
Great prizes.
Great food.
Great people.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That will probably go back to 40s standards before long.
Go while you still have a chance. ;0]
Ok, this is starting to get rather unfriendly of you.
I’m struggling to wake up, will respond to things when I can. But you’ve painted with a very broad brush with some nasty language more than once despite my multiple olive branches towards you.
First we’re “damaged” now we’re “animals with fleas.” I get it, you don’t like sex workers. But I think it’s coloring your ability to reason and argument.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Nope. The "if it doesn't hurt somebody else and all participants are consenting (and able to consent) the state shouldn't regulate it" principle.Ah, yes. The "every man is a nation unto himself" defense.
You can use the black box test. Assume people meet at a place which is a black box to you. You can only see what the people do before and after they leave. When you can't decide, from their behaviour if they have been in a church or in a brothel, it shouldn't phase you.
A lot like going to a casino ... another place that just wants your money, and pretends it'll give you something that it won't.
Nope. Strip clubs give exactly what they claim: scantily clad woman dancing on a pole and flirting with you.
If you take it as more than that, you are likely to get asked to leave.
And you know this how?
Erebus
Well-Known Member
It isn't something I enjoy and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
If other people like it, it's really none of my business.
I don't go to strip clubs. And on my last census, under "Sex" I put "mostly hypothetical."
One of the places I worked at had stairs. Depending on the severity of the infraction…
(Now I’m not saying I condone violence. But I saw and dealt with some real entitled trash).
The only time I've seen stripping in person was at a gay bar and you can do pretty much whatever you please with those guys. "No touching" wasn't a thing. And, yeah - I wanted sex that night.
Ok, I've opened this link; but this doesn't appear to be data: this is a single anecdote about a woman named Jenna. This won't work. So I tried to look a little more into the literature: there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of research in this area.
I was able to find for instance the suggestion that self-esteem issues are linked to both drugs and prostitution (The Role of Self-esteem in Tendency towards Drugs, Theft and Prostitution). But that's an example of sample bias (perhaps not all prostitutes have self-esteem issues. In fact, the data I could find on porn actresses -- admittedly a different category, but seemingly relevant in my opinion -- the opposite was true, they had high self-esteem. I would say anecdotally dancers I've known, including my younger self, had high self-esteem).
I found some data on crack-addicted African American women (https://www.researchgate.net/profil...se-and-Coping-with-Psychological-Distress.pdf), obviously another case of sampling bias. (I do not mean that the papers are invalid, but that if we tried to use them to generalize the statement "most prostitutes are prostitutes to fuel drug addiction," that the papers would not work for this since they have very particular samples).
I was able to find this abstract, which seems to support the statement (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/449175):
Abstract said:
(Emphasis added).
So, I would point out though that there is still a sampling issue here: not all prostitutes are street prostitutes.
It has been extraordinarily difficult to find more data, and I have not been able to find data that doesn't suffer from these sampling issues. So the most support for the idea in contention is "more than half of one particular type of prostitute use drugs," but this does not even say that they're specifically engaging in prostitution to use drugs.
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Sex work is considered seedy so a lot of seedy things are going to crop up around the culture, which does include drug use. This also happens with seedier waiting jobs, bar jobs, anything of the like. Part of legalization and regulation would help remove a lot of the dark elements inherent in being on the fringe of social acceptability.
Look at the legalization of weed: people used to have to sometimes walk into fairly seedy situations; now in Colorado you can walk into a shop that might as well be a milquetoast white suburban pharmacy.
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Relevant to the purpose of the poll though, it sounds like you knew the type of establishment, so this data point has an asterisk on it.
Thank you. Some people are assuming that everyone has bad intentions by working at or patronizing a strip club, and it just ain't so. In my experience some people were very sweet. One of my clubs actually had bar food, so some guys would come in after work just to get a bite to eat, enjoy the sights, and go home. I really do not find that weird or exploitative like some people are suggesting. Just because it might not be for them doesn't mean it's not for anybody.
And the amount of straight girls we'd get was just hilarious. I think something about women in the area or maybe American culture enjoy doing silly ironic things. (I liked them as much as the sweet regulars because they were silly and rambunctious and it was just a lot of fun).
No. I hadn't been there before.
I can see it's a complex relationship between sex work and drugs but it seems to me your experience has not been the norm (at least compared to the UK).
night night
I'm willing to admit my experience might not be the norm. It was overall a good experience, and some people can't say that (I can't say how many, because data is apparently very hard to find that isn't hyperspecified). I think decriminalization and legalization would help more sex workers have positive experiences.
Edit: And while at it, enough of this "independent contractor" BS, so people can have access to benefits.
Did you expect to have sex before you walked in, or did you see laxness and get the idea?
Certainly it's not for everybody, and that's ok!
It was just a night out to a gay bar. I was open to things to begin with, I think.