If you go to a strip club, do you expect to have sex?

[exchemist]

Performing a little poll experiment to make a point to @PureX :

If you go to a strip club, are you expecting to have sex? Or are you aware that you're going to be tipping for drinks and tipping dancers to watch only?

Is watching dancers fun for you even if you don't get to have sex with them?

Yes, it was, sort of, a couple of times. But it was someone else's idea on both occasions.

But I found I wanted to get to know the nicest looking girls, not just watch them strip. It felt so unfriendly. So it was not something I would ever have made a habit of. And anyway, then I grew up a bit more.

 

[Meow Mix]

Yes, it was, sort of, a couple of times. But it was someone else's idea on both occasions.

But I found I wanted to get to know the nicest looking girls, not just watch them strip. It felt so unfriendly. So it was not something I would ever have made a habit of. And anyway, then I grew up a bit more.

As have I (on growing past patronizing strip clubs). But I’m trying to make the point to PureX for our discussion that they have a place.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, as Ye Oldie, I have been to quite a few strip clubs and events where such was provided as entertainment (in the UK and elsewhere). It was only at one such where I was aware that any female performing might be available for something further - as to which I didn't succumb, but I might have done if known sooner. Mostly, we respected what they did, enjoyed such, and didn't impose ourselves upon them. I can only remember one event, in Soho (UK), that any kind of negative interaction occurred, and where I amongst others, countered the drunk behaviour that probably caused such. Tipping wasn't an option here since they didn't get that close - just the nature of the events.

 

[Meow Mix]

I would expect to get laid.
But perhaps this is because there aren't strip clubs, strictly speaking, around here, in the sense that the brothels are the only place where you get to watch a strip-tease.

Which makes this data point not count for the point being made (but still glad you added to the discussion).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I never have and never will. I view it just as any other businesses. I like to go for the lap dances but if the music is off and the girls aren't pretty its pretty much a no-go. Has nothing to do with sex. I assume most people-men and women-can tell the difference between someone interested or someone just doing their job. I would think.

 

[Meow Mix]

Well @PureX , it appears that at least among this admittedly unscientific poll, most people understand they’re not getting sex at a reputable club, know what they’re paying for, and have fun anyway.

Are they being exploited?

 

[Meow Mix]

Also yeesh. I am way past giving a ****, but I’m pretty sure I was mostly tight-lipped about dancing when I was on RF in my 20’s. (My first days on RF was well after that anyway). But, this just tells me how much I’ve changed.

I’m pretty sure a couple of people I talked to a lot knew about it. But I’m just over the stigma. It is not a shameful thing and I’m laughing that I was ever worried about being judged for it here.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well @PureX , it appears that at least among this admittedly unscientific poll, most people understand they’re not getting sex at a reputable club, know what they’re paying for, and have fun anyway.

Are they being exploited?

Pretty much. It's like going to a restaurant and asking because we smile and chat with the waitress we expect her (and she expects to) fix our food and sit and eat with us. While I know quite a few waitresses that don't mind talking to customers for a few mins while taking an order I'd be hard pressed to find a customer asking the waiter to eat with her or waitress saying "I'll make you my favorite dish."... and in the US they do expect tips.

 

[Secret Chief]

Well @PureX , it appears that at least among this admittedly unscientific poll, most people understand they’re not getting sex at a reputable club, know what they’re paying for, and have fun anyway.

Are they being exploited?

At the risk of deeply regretting poking this bear...but as someone as simplistic as me, I would have thought any such clubs (lap and strip) would have been in the crosshairs of feminists from the get go (back in the 70s?). Any elucidation that can be offered would be most welcome. (But please don't use the word "intersectional" - I looked it up and still didn't understand it. That's the sort of level you should pitch at).

 

[Mock Turtle]

At the risk of deeply regretting poking this bear...but as someone as simplistic as me, I would have thought any such clubs (lap and strip) would be in the crosshairs of feminists from the get go (back in the 70s?). Any elucidation that can be offered would be most welcome. (But please don't use the word "intersectional" - I looked it up and still didn't understand it. That's the sort of level you should pitch at).

I think they are split - as to rights of expression as against those being of oppression.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think they are split - as to rights of expression as against those being of oppression.

I suspect so, but I'm hoping for a reply from @Meow Mix

 

[ChristineM]

I've never been to a strip club so cannot vote. However i once went to a hen party, the highlight of the evening was a troop of male strippers. Interesting, nice, well defined bodies from an artistic point of view but sex? I never thought about it. (Although other girls did). It was in the naive period of my life before... Not going there on a public thread. Maybe it would be different now

 

[Meow Mix]

At the risk of deeply regretting poking this bear...but as someone as simplistic as me, I would have thought any such clubs (lap and strip) would be in the crosshairs of feminists from the get go (back in the 70s?). Any elucidation that can be offered would be most welcome. (But please don't use the word "intersectional" - I looked it up and still didn't understand it. That's the sort of level you should pitch at).

I thought you weren’t afraid of me? (Haha, no, I get the hesitance if you think a topic’s going to be hairy, just teasing). ^.^

To respond without a lot of terminology: I don’t think stripping is at odds with feminism at all. Here are some reasons.

1) My body, my choice. The stigma that comes with sex work is from an unnecessary moralization of sex and sex-adjacent (e.g. nudity) affairs. Some of this is the argument put forward by PureX, that sex work is necessarily exploitative.

So we can examine who’s being exploited.

Well, anecdotally, I was a dancer. I wasn’t being exploited because I was comfortable with nudity, I was wild, I came from a small town, I wanted to do something crazy, and I wanted to make a lot of money.

This thread was about whether the customer is exploited; but no: it appears (as I knew, having also been a customer with friends) knows that they are just there for entertainment and drinks.

The only reason people have a problem with it is if they have hangups about nudity, really. Stripping and visiting a club are not for everybody and that’s fine; but it doesn’t give them the right to moralize it for others.

2) Women’s bodies are objectified ubiquitously, and patriarchal society makes a ****load of money off of doing this. Sex workers dare to tap into the market that creates to make some money (again, without exploitation, with consenting and knowledgeable parties involved, etc.) and get demonized for it. They’re our bodies. If society has made a market out of it then there is nothing wrong with having some fun out of that like with any other entertainment service.

There are feminists that disagree (I promised not to use terms, but they’re called SWERFs), that stripping just further adds to the omnipresent objectification and so on. And I can sympathize with the thought process involved. But I still think “my body, my choice” trumps that, and the fact that it’s still rooted in an unnecessary moralization of bodies.

tl;dr, it depends on the feminist you ask. This feminist thinks it’s harmless fun that can empower young women (it did this one).

 

[Justanatheist]

1) My body, my choice. The stigma that comes with sex work is from an unnecessary moralization of sex and sex-adjacent (e.g. nudity) affairs. Some of this is the argument put forward by PureX, that sex work is necessarily exploitative.

I think that the stigma only often only goes one way from men to women, in other words, men who strip/work in the sex industry are rarely stigmatised by other men. At least in the circles I move in, it is the stud/**** bit. Not being a women I wonder if women stigmatise women?

LOL even the profanity filter does it

 

[Revoltingest]

Some friends & I went to one once when we were about 20.
What I expect if I ever go to one again, based upon experience.....
- Seeing sweaty disinterested women gyrating awkwardly on stage.
- Noisy.
- High cover charge.
- To not buy spendy drinks.
- That the place will burn down overnite.

 

[Meow Mix]

I think that the stigma only often only goes one way from men to women, in other words, men who strip/work in the sex industry are rarely stigmatised by other men. At least in the circles I move in, it is the stud/**** bit. Not being a women I wonder if women stigmatise women?

LOL even the profanity filter does it

Yes, women stigmatize women; even (and sometimes especially) within feminism.

It’s definitely an instance of the “men doing sexy things are studs, women doing sexy things are sluts” bit.

I think people just need to get over the moralization of bodies and sex. It doesn’t mean everyone has to be quite as libertine as some of us; but they sure could stop moralizing us just because we don’t really give a **** if someone sees a nipple or something. Bodies are bodies and people should grow up about it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Performing a little poll experiment to make a point to @PureX :

If you go to a strip club, are you expecting to have sex? Or are you aware that you're going to be tipping for drinks and tipping dancers to watch only?

Is watching dancers fun for you even if you don't get to have sex with them?

Absolutely not.

It's adult entertainment. It's fun. That dosent mean the expectation for wanton physical sex is going to be there.

A swingers club sure, but even those places have rules that you dont cross a line with.

 

[Secret Chief]

The only reason people have a problem with it is if they have hangups about nudity, really.

So are you saying all feminists who object to the clubs and sex work have hangups about nudity?

Sex workers dare to tap into the market that creates to make some money (again, without exploitation, with consenting and knowledgeable parties involved, etc.)

As I understand it, the great majority of sex workers use their money to fund a drug addiction, and remain in poverty. They commenced the work in order to fund the addiction.

 

[Justanatheist]

Yes, women stigmatize women; even (and sometimes especially) within feminism.

It’s definitely an instance of the “men doing sexy things are studs, women doing sexy things are sluts” bit.

I think people just need to get over the moralization of bodies and sex. It doesn’t mean everyone has to be quite as libertine as some of us; but they sure could stop moralizing us just because we don’t really give a **** if someone sees a nipple or something. Bodies are bodies and people should grow up about it.

Nipples and hot soldering irons do not mix, just an observation I learnt from repairing a pinball in a strip club one night.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Is this an American thing or have I just had a sheltered life?

Well....

Nudes a Poppin....

It may not be completely all of America, but it is an American dream.

It's weird. Europe is one of the most open places on earth yet a little t and a over here?

I'm convinced it's the Bible belt getting all worked up while everyone else relaxes with a cigarette and a little drink afterwards watching the pent up folks go crazy.