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If you could talk to a rioter.

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Daemon Sophic, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    If you could talk to one (or even a large crowd) of the seditionist rioters who rampaged their way into the US Capital Building last week on Wednesday the 6th, now, one week later.....

    What would you tell them?
    What would you ask them?
    How might you advise them for the future, both near and far?
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    What on Earth are you doing!
    Such a post might inspire discussion instead of tossing feces at each other.

    I would ask them what consequences they'd envision
    for having their group becoming associated with
    violence & lawlessness. What actions could better
    advance their cause?
    This is exactly what I discuss IRL with people of
    that ilk. I do have some success getting them to
    consider it.
     
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  3. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    "Put the bong down."
     
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  4. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Born-again Glompist
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    I would try to get as much identifying information about them as possible and report them to law enforcement. Terrorists need to be locked up, not mollycoddled. The time for reasoning with them is long behind now that they have committed terrorist actions.
     
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  5. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member

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    One thing that's kind of flabbergasted me with all this is the pictures. They can't all possibly be stupid. Sure, some of them are, but most are probably of at least average intelligence. What I'd say is:

    "You're committing a crime. You seem to have your reasons, but why on earth are you taking pictures? And then posting them on public forums? Is your five minutes of fame worth the years in prison?"

    Though this sentiment goes to more than just the protestors... I don't know how many people I see in the paper caught because of their own need for recognition.

    Maybe that's our society's problem... no one's getting enough attention these days.
     
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  6. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    It certainly does seem strange, but based on some of the things done, it seems to me as if at least some of those guys in the building itself thought they had "done it." Trump was going to win, and they were going to be written into the history book as having chosen the "right side." The cold realities are things they weren't even clued into, if I had to guess. Like the fact that Trump wasn't even going to give them a first glance, let alone a second - he'd easily and swiftly throw them all under the bus no matter how involved he had been in planning/execution. That's who he is. Or the fact that, once it had reached emergency proportions, a whole slew of authority was going to come crashing down on their heads as fast as could be mobilized. I don't even think they considered it. They were "in the right" - and as such couldn't be held accountable for anything they'd done that may be considered a crime. I mean any "reasonable" person would have to realize they were "right," right?
     
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  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Anger opposes rational thought. Making decisons while angry leads to over-reacting.
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Crowds.
    I hate them.
    What I notice about them is that when they all have
    something deeply shared, they become a culture all
    by themselves....separate from the larger society.
    The normal influences of a diverse society are absent
    from the crowd. To think alike is reinforced because
    everyone else thinks & feels that way. They lose
    contact with outsiders, & their perspective is warped.
    It's not stupidity. It's seeing a different reality.
    Behavioral restraints can be less. Paranoia can take
    over. People will act in strange & dangerous ways.

    There's a practical origin to this observation. When
    I'd rent houses to university students who were all
    on a team, eg, football, they all had a culture of
    privilege, disregard for others, & violent behavior.
    It was a costly lesson. Since then, I'd never lease
    to such a group. Such athletes needed influence
    from ordinary students, who were peaceful, studious,
    & feared adverse consequences from bad acts.
     
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  9. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    *snort* You mean you made an informed decision about a group based on their behavior and didn't get muddled in 'will addressing this phenomenon as a problem alienate those I choose to categorically dismiss from renting to?' #notallfootballteams

    ...Or do you just have double standards when it comes to renting and probably shouldn't judge them all by your limited experience pool?
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Harrumph.
     
  11. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Maybe try therapy instead of sedition next time. I mean, what do you say to someone who believes your opponents are involved in a vast pedophile satanic cult? I'm sure some of them regret their actions, others just regret getting caught, and others have problems that could only have been addressed with adequate mental healthcare coverage or access to quality education. So maybe we should focus on that in the future.
     
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  12. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind Eye

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    Does this make sense from a propaganda perspective and why emotions are targeted when trying to manipulate people?

    1. Panic Mongering. This goes one step beyond simple fear mongering. With panic mongering, there is never a break from the fear. The idea is to terrify and terrorize the audience during every waking moment. From Muslims to swine flu to recession to homosexuals to immigrants to the rapture itself, the belief over at Fox seems to be that if your fight-or-flight reflexes aren’t activated, you aren’t alive. This of course raises the question: why terrorize your own audience? Because it is the fastest way to bypass the rational brain. In other words, when people are afraid, they don’t think rationally. And when they can’t think rationally, they’ll believe anything.

    Very effective and a top choice for Far-Right Newsmakers
     
    #12 tytlyf, Jan 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I thought for a few minutes and I could not come up with anything I would say....
    That is because I believe they are too far gone to reason with, and my way is to try to reason with people.
     
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  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What I would like to say is "Never again!"

    Sadly, I just don't believe it.
     
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  15. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    What would you tell them?

    I'm sorry you got caught up in all this - it is no fun feeling like your voice is not heard.

    What would you ask them?

    It is not uncommon for humans to fail to consider the consequences of their actions. Were you aware of the gravity of your actions? Are you aware of that now, after the fact?

    How might you advise them for the future, both near and far?

    If you want your voice heard - if you want to improve the representativeness of the American democracy - then join in election reform efforts. If our government is supposed to be by the people, for the people, it needs to actually be representative of the people. Right now, it isn't. And fixing that won't be easy because the people in power - both Democrats and Republicans - have a vested interest in keeping the system as it is. The American political landscape is more complex than two parties can accommodate. It's past time to bust up the two party system and create a proper, rank-order voting system (Solutions - FairVote) to allow third parties to be more viable and create a more representative democracy.

     
    #15 Quintessence, Jan 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  16. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    The rioter's themselves: you should be locked up.

    Trump supporters who are peaceful? That's a different matter and not part of the OP questions. I suspect that if we got past the election and down to the root of what bothers them, it would be feelings screwed by the way things are today and at that level we could be in at least partial agreement if nowhere else.
     
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  17. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing they would hear. Waste of time.
     
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  18. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind Eye

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    I understand what bothers them and how they think. It's not really difficult when you can read comments across the internet to get common perspectives.
    I wish they would understand that their feelings are being manipulated on purpose to scare people into voting Republican instead of Democrat.
    That's all it is. Their RW newsmakers are the ones who teach them, make their feelings anxious, nervous, paranoid, angry, etc..
    Those are the provocateurs. Why aren't they noticing that?
    The RW gossip machine is there to take advantage of people for $ and votes. That's it.
     
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    More like move to a legal state, pick that up, and chill to some Bob Marley and John Lennon.
     
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  20. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I think the way the US holds elections (to the best of my knowledge as an outsider anyway) has been shown by recent events to be utterly outdated and only causes greater division.
    This is shown by the Alt right types who might vote Republican if for no other reason than they feel that party is closer to them than the Dems. Granted thanks to social media the movement exists even in countries with ranked voting. I think. Like the UK has to have ranked voting since we do and we basically copied their system. :shrug:
    Regardless, Trump seemed to appeal to people who felt unheard or neglected by the current system. For whatever reason. His cult of personality seemed to appeal to their need for more stability. At least that’s what I think happened. Maybe some just voted Trump last time because they hated Hilary or because of party loyalty, I dunno.
    But the hardcore Trumpists seem to voice such things, at least that’s what I’ve seen.

    This is odd to me. Because sure I feel left out by our current politics. I’m itching for some new blood in our parliament. But that’s just how idiot whippersnappers always are like.
    The Old guard (boomers) have had their time and now we want to move into the insert current century here.
    I’ve pretty much heard the same from young leftists regarding the Democrats in America for pretty much my entire life. But we’re not going to storm the Parliament anytime soon. (Hopefully) And not just because of COVID lockdown restrictions. Sometimes life just feels sucky. The best you can hope for is incremental improvements to society going forward.

    But the hardcore Trumpists seem to be utterly baffled by the changing landscape of society as a whole. Again this is just based on what I’ve seen on social media. So take my observations with a large grain of salt.
    I wonder if they really will split off from the traditional Republican base and form their own little party in the future. Will they even regard the Biden presidency as legitimate ever.
    I know plenty of people dissatisfied by the government for one reason or another, across the political spectrum. But hardcore Trump loyalists seem like a new breed entirely.

    I almost feel like I want to study them.
     
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