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If you claim any sort of belief in the Bible--

Saggath

Member
Would you say that Jesus was born as a Jew and after he died was preached to others beyond the Jews? Remember -- IF you claim any sort of belief in the Bible -- if you don't, no need for you to answer. Thanks.
I claim a sort of belief in the Bible. To answer your specific compound question, I would say Jesus was most probably born as a Jew. I don't know what he did after he died. I don't know if he preached, as I understand the word. I would say he teached, not preached. I get that from the words attributed to him in the New Testament. It seems likely he would have at least spoken to Romans, Greeks, Arabs, and Egyptians, and others., but how much teaching that involved, I do not know.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I claim a sort of belief in the Bible. To answer your specific compound question, I would say Jesus was most probably born as a Jew. I don't know what he did after he died. I don't know if he preached, as I understand the word. I would say he teached, not preached. I get that from the words attributed to him in the New Testament. It seems likely he would have at least spoken to Romans, Greeks, Arabs, and Egyptians, and others., but how much teaching that involved, I do not know.
According to what I understand and believe in the Bible, yes, Jesus was born as a Jew. When he was before Pontius Pilate, Pilate asked him if he was the king of the Jews. Many, not all, of the Jews put him up on charges and wanted him executed. Mark 15:2--"So Pilate put the question to him: “Are you the King of the Jews?” In answer he said: “You yourself say it." Also, he was born to a Jewish woman and raised according to Jewish custom.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I believe that Jesus is definitely coming back. I am not sure if He will be in the same form as when He was here on Earth.
You do realize that he was sometimes not recognized right away by his disciples after his resurrection, right? So that does make an interesting point.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
"... look at their reputation of having a loving, united worldwide brotherhood, not fractured by divisive worldly behaviors and boundaries", such as the JW's? LOL!!!
What I said was to look at the reputations of all religions in light of those Scriptures I posted. I would suggest that everyone interested in searching for truth, apply those Scriptures when researching religions.

Because Jesus said at Matthew 7:18,21-23, “many” apparent leaders of Christendom would call Jesus their “Lord”, but Jesus would not only not accept them, but would call them “evildoers”, doing bad things.

Christendom’s leaders, who should know better, have encouraged their flocks to join the world in its wars; the same world that Jesus said to be “not of / no part of.”

And keep in mind Jesus said His followers would be "hated" by the world due to their being “not of” it.

Which is a good thing in God’s eyes. (James 1:27; 4:4) What do you think?
When you wake up from your dream we can discuss this further...
It’s no dream, cousin.
We’re a united global brotherhood everyday. — 1 Corinthians 1:10

Take care.
 

vijeno

Member
Would you say that Jesus was born as a Jew and after he died was preached to others beyond the Jews? Remember -- IF you claim any sort of belief in the Bible -- if you don't, no need for you to answer. Thanks.
Any sort of belief? Well, I'm an atheist, but obviously the bible gives us insight into the early history of christianity, among other things. I don't claim to know anything for certain, but - assuming Jesus existed at all - I think it's exceedingly likely that he was born as a Jew, and remained one for all of his life. As for the other claim... I wouldn't even know how anyone could deny that Paul preached about someone he called "Christ", "the lord" or "messiah", whom he seemed to identify with said Jesus, and that the same goes for many other people too.... So again, yes, most likely this happened.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Any sort of belief? Well, I'm an atheist, but obviously the bible gives us insight into the early history of christianity, among other things. I don't claim to know anything for certain, but - assuming Jesus existed at all - I think it's exceedingly likely that he was born as a Jew, and remained one for all of his life. As for the other claim... I wouldn't even know how anyone could deny that Paul preached about someone he called "Christ", "the lord" or "messiah", whom he seemed to identify with said Jesus, and that the same goes for many other people too.... So again, yes, most likely this happened.
Of course it would be amazing to realize that Paul was approached in a blinding flash of light by Jesus. I had been an atheist but finally prayed to God because -- I needed help and guidance. But that's my story. Thank you for your answer, appreciate it.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Of course it would be amazing to realize that Paul was approached in a blinding flash of light by Jesus.
Lightning is associated with divine punishment, with Ezekiel's message about keeping the law, and with the fall of the adversary/enemy.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
What chapter and verse are you associating that with, please?
Cast forth lightning, and scatter them: shoot out thine arrows, and destroy them.
Psalms 144:6

And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.
Ezekiel 1:14

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:18

Thus saith the Lord YHWH; This [is] Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries [that are] round about her.
And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that [are] round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.
Ezekiel 5:5-6
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 10:18

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:3-4

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Galatians 4:16
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?But the Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel* to me+ to bear my name to the nations+ as well as to kings+ and the sons of Israel.
Acts 9:3-4

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Galatians 4:16
Saul, who was later known as Paul, stopped persecuting Christians once he realized it was Jesus talking to him. And he was used as a chosen vessel by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 9:13 describes this when the disciple Ananais had a vision from Jesus: "The Lord said to him: “Go! because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel."
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Acts 9:3-4

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Galatians 4:16
That is correct; the man named Saul became a devoted follower of Jesus upon realizing who it was speaking to him.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Saul, who was later known as Paul, stopped persecuting Christians once he realized it was Jesus talking to him.
They were not Christians, they were disciples. The Christians didn't get their name until Paul was teaching at Antioch.

And he was used as a chosen vessel by the Lord Jesus Christ.
A vessel of suffering.

Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:13-16

a devoted follower of Jesus
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:21
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Would you say that Jesus was born as a Jew and after he died was preached to others beyond the Jews? Remember -- IF you claim any sort of belief in the Bible -- if you don't, no need for you to answer. Thanks.
I think it more likely than not that there was an historical Jesus. In particular I think the historians' criterion of embarrassment endorses the claim that Jesus fought rather bitterly with his mother and his family. I'm also influenced by the argument mentioned by Ehrman that none of Christianity's early critics ever raised the claim that Jesus had never existed.

Of the five main versions of Jesus in the NT, the only one that is both explicit and credible as to Jesus' origins is Mark's. There Jesus is a straightforward Jewish male who becomes the son of God by adoption, explicitly just as David had become God's son by adoption (Psalm 2:7, see too Acts 13:33).

Jesus is Jewish by origin all through the NT, and Luke specifically refers to his circumcision (Luke 2:21). The God he claims as his God is the Jewish God throughout, and accordingly the finale in all four gospels takes place in Jerusalem in association with Passover. Note too how each of the five versions of Jesus explicitly denies that he personally is God, and never claims to be God.

I can't recall any account in the gospels of Jesus preaching to a non-Jewish audience.

Nor am I aware of any examples of Christianity among the pagans in Jesus' traditional lifetime (CE c. 1 to CE 30 or 33 or so).

However, clearly in Acts some of the followers of Christianity who survived Jesus were out preaching generally, and how early Paul appears in that scene, and how close to being the first to do so he was, I'm unable to illuminate. (I acknowledge that one of my faults is that I find Acts very boring to read.)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
They were not Christians, they were disciples. The Christians didn't get their name until Paul was teaching at Antioch.
A vessel of suffering.
No, but he was told he would suffer and Paul understood that, did not argue about it. Others suffered too. God was not punishing them, but like Paul suffered because of their faith in God.
Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:13-16


He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:21
True worshipers can surely suffer. Are you trying to say that worshipers of God will not experience suffering? Matthew 5:12, Jesus said: "Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
No, they got their name at Antioch.

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Acts 11:26
 

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
No, but he was told he would suffer and Paul understood that, did not argue about it. Others suffered too. God was not punishing them, but like Paul suffered because of their faith in God.

True worshipers can surely suffer. Are you trying to say that worshipers of God will not experience suffering? Matthew 5:12, Jesus said: "Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
All of humankind suffers.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
he was told he would suffer
No, Ananias didn't tell him that.

Others suffered too.
But not for the same reason.

Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
Psalms 109:16

God was not punishing them
Rejection of the law has been associated with divine punishment.

And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that [are] round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.
Therefore thus saith the Lord YHWH; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that [are] round about you, [and] have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that [are] round about you;
Therefore thus saith the Lord YHWH; Behold, I, even I, [am] against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.
Ezekiel 5:6-8
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
No, Ananias didn't tell him that.
Here is what the Bible says about this: (Acts 9)
"But Ananias answered, “Lord, many people have told me about this man and all the harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14And now he is here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on Your name.”
15“Go!” said the Lord. “This man is My chosen instrument to carry My name before the Gentiles and their kings, and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for My name.”
17So Ananias went to the house, and when he arrived, he placed his hands on Saul. “Brother Saul,” he said, “the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here, has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
So--it says here that Saul (Paul) would be filled with the holy spirit, and he called Saul "Brother." I don't know what you think that means, but to me it means that Jesus Christ accepted Paul as a chosen, blessed vessel.
 
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