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If you believe

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In the end Bahá’u’lláh grew up as a Muslin where alcohol and sex were fround upon, so it would seem obvious that any message he proclaims would be seasoned with his own world view of reality.

Don’t get me wrong I think a lot of the stuff he taught was great, but in the end he’s just another fallen and broken man as we all are.

I guess it would be better if many of todays religions stopped worshipping men and their man made rules

It may be more reasonable if man stopped persecuting Gods Messengers.

At least Baha'u'llah would have been a lot less broken if they had.

Just a thought mind you.

Regards Tony
 

Trackdayguy

Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
I think its faith to say that across the religions sex outside marriage is frowned upon. Yet the OT is filled from cover to cover with Godly men who have multiple sexual partners. Today we call it Open Marriage or Polyamory. Early humans didn't live as couples they lived in communities and shared everything. The majority of people today still believe the lie that Monogamy came from the Bible, when in fact it came from Rome. The problem starts when you make 2 false assumptions. 1. That sex is bad. 2. It should only operate within a monogamous marriage. Both assumptions are false and therefore any conclusions one makes using those 2 points will be floored.

I will try and respond to your questions as best as I can.
1. Bahaullah was almost certainly a broken man due to the trauma he experienced as a child. We all interpret data based on our own perception of reality and that reality is changed when we experience trauma.
2. True spiritually takes place in the heart of a man/women, it is not found in obeying man made laws, it comes from being one and present, firstly with oneself and secondly with your God. Spiritual truth is always subjective.
3. Deuteronomy 6:5 makes no mention of Baha'u'llah
4. You mentioned "If I Truly loved God I wouldn't behave in this way" That assumes of course that having 2 women in my life is wrong.

If you study the scriptures you will discover that God didn't tolerate Polyamory, He commanded it. Why because it created safety for her and her children. Today people sexualise almost everything, so this becomes about sex. As I have said in other posts on this formu most religious institutions have a sex negative ajenda.

Some good reading on this subject is: "Sexual Lust" PM me and I send you a PDF copy.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I think its faith to say that across the religions sex outside marriage is frowned upon. Yet the OT is filled from cover to cover with Godly men who have multiple sexual partners. Today we call it Open Marriage or Polyamory. Early humans didn't live as couples they lived in communities and shared everything. The majority of people today still believe the lie that Monogamy came from the Bible, when in fact it came from Rome. The problem starts when you make 2 false assumptions. 1. That sex is bad. 2. It should only operate within a monogamous marriage. Both assumptions are false and therefore any conclusions one makes using those 2 points will be floored.

The whole issue of polygamy in the bible is an interesting one and makes sense in an historic context.

Polygamy in Christianity - Wikipedia

In Islam Muhammad had many wives as was the customs of the pagan tribes. However He limited the number to four.

Baha'u'llah had three wives as was the custom of Persian nobility at that stage and said that a man could have more than one wife if He would treat them with equal justice. His eldest son Abdu'l-Baha who became the leader of the Faith and authorised interpreter stated it was impossible to treat two wives with equal justice and the standard should be monogamy which he upheld.

There is nothing in the sacred writings of Judaism, Christianity, Islam or the Baha'i writings that says sex is bad.

Shoghi Effendi, the guardian of the Faith has stated;

The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expression such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá’ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.


I will try and respond to your questions as best as I can.
1. Bahaullah was almost certainly a broken man due to the trauma he experienced as a child. We all interpret data based on our own perception of reality and that reality is changed when we experience trauma.
2. True spiritually takes place in the heart of a man/women, it is not found in obeying man made laws, it comes from being one and present, firstly with oneself and secondly with your God. Spiritual truth is always subjective.
3. Deuteronomy 6:5 makes no mention of Baha'u'llah
4. You mentioned "If I Truly loved God I wouldn't behave in this way" That assumes of course that having 2 women in my life is wrong.

1/ Baha'u'llah like Christ showed innate knowledge and outstanding character in His childhood. There is nothing I'm aware of that would suggest otherwise.

The Life of Bahá’u’lláh | What Bahá’ís Believe

2/ While I agree with what you say, living the life is also essential (James 2:14-26).

3/ I never said it did.

Baha'u'llah literally translated means Glory of God. The phrase the 'Glory of the Lord' which refers to Baha'u'llah is mentioned four times in Isaiah:

It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

Isaiah 35:2

And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 40:5

Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.
Isaiah 58:8

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:1

4/
If you study the scriptures you will discover that God didn't tolerate Polyamory, He commanded it. Why because it created safety for her and her children. Today people sexualise almost everything, so this becomes about sex. As I have said in other posts on this formu most religious institutions have a sex negative ajenda.

Do you practice polyamory?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I appreciate and respect that you believe that Baha'u'llah to be the Manifestation of God for this day and His laws are a revelation from God, but just because you believe it doesn't make it true.
Conversely, just because you do not believe it does not make it false, logically speaking.
The problem with nearly all religions is they legislate behaviour.
The problem with most humans is that they just want what they want when they want it. Of course they do not like religions such as the Baha'i Faith that have laws. Imo, a religion without laws is a worthless religion because it holds nobody accountable to any standards of moral behavior... but of course that is what people want.

One has to ask why sex is so important to people and how they think they can be spiritual when they live for self and things of the flesh as opposed to living for God and other people. Those are mutually incompatible. But people want what they want, and they can have it because we all have free will... Just count me out. Things of the flesh is about as boring as one can get, compared to things of the spirit. Jesus knew that was well as did Baha'u'llah. :rolleyes:

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

“It behoveth the people of Bahá to die to the world and all that is therein, to be so detached from all earthly things that the inmates of Paradise may inhale from their garment the sweet smelling savor of sanctity, that all the peoples of the earth may recognize in their faces the brightness of the All-Merciful, and that through them may be spread abroad the signs and tokens of God, the Almighty, the All-Wise. They that have tarnished the fair name of the Cause of God, by following the things of the flesh—these are in palpable error!” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 100-101

“Suffer not the habitation wherein dwelleth My undying love for thee to be destroyed through the tyranny of covetous desires, and overcloud not the beauty of the heavenly Youth with the dust of self and passion.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 323
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What sort of picture of God are the Bahai community trying to communicate when they legislate against sex outside of marriage/monogamy, (which we know doesn't work) and enforcing a no booze rule.
REALLY....
A picture of what Baha'u'llah expects of a Baha'i, a picture like this:

“Say: He is not to be numbered with the people of Bahá who followeth his mundane desires, or fixeth his heart on things of the earth. He is My true follower who, if he come to a valley of pure gold, will pass straight through it aloof as a cloud, and will neither turn back, nor pause. Such a man is, assuredly, of Me. From his garment the Concourse on high can inhale the fragrance of sanctity…. And if he met the fairest and most comely of women, he would not feel his heart seduced by the least shadow of desire for her beauty. Such an one, indeed, is the creation of spotless chastity. Thus instructeth you the Pen of the Ancient of Days, as bidden by your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Bountiful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 117-118

If people do not like the heat, they can stay out of the kitchen and go into the bedroom. :rolleyes:
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I think its faith to say that across the religions sex outside marriage is frowned upon. Yet the OT is filled from cover to cover with Godly men who have multiple sexual partners. Today we call it Open Marriage or Polyamory. Early humans didn't live as couples they lived in communities and shared everything. The majority of people today still believe the lie that Monogamy came from the Bible, when in fact it came from Rome. The problem starts when you make 2 false assumptions. 1. That sex is bad. 2. It should only operate within a monogamous marriage. Both assumptions are false and therefore any conclusions one makes using those 2 points will be floored.

I will try and respond to your questions as best as I can.
1. Bahaullah was almost certainly a broken man due to the trauma he experienced as a child. We all interpret data based on our own perception of reality and that reality is changed when we experience trauma.
2. True spiritually takes place in the heart of a man/women, it is not found in obeying man made laws, it comes from being one and present, firstly with oneself and secondly with your God. Spiritual truth is always subjective.
3. Deuteronomy 6:5 makes no mention of Baha'u'llah
4. You mentioned "If I Truly loved God I wouldn't behave in this way" That assumes of course that having 2 women in my life is wrong.

If you study the scriptures you will discover that God didn't tolerate Polyamory, He commanded it. Why because it created safety for her and her children. Today people sexualise almost everything, so this becomes about sex. As I have said in other posts on this formu most religious institutions have a sex negative ajenda.

Some good reading on this subject is: "Sexual Lust" PM me and I send you a PDF copy.
Just go create some sex cult instead of bothering with Abrahamic religions. You're obviously obsessed with sex and it's about the most important thing to you so just stop beating around the bush. Even classical polytheism would be too prudish for your hedonism (since they were sex accepting but not sex obsessed and you still had social duties.)

Oh, and Biblical patriarchal polygamy isn't the same as modern liberal polyamory. In the former, the women are the property of their fathers and then their husbands when they're married off. The woman couldn't take another lover. In modern polyamory, the people at least pretend to be egalitarian and one or both parents is open to falling in love with another, and the other is informed and consents to this. (I have my doubts about polyamory being workable, but that's what they say.)
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
Came to faith 30+ years ago, rejected evangelical fundalism 20 years ago.

If you believe that down through the ages that God has spoken through many people, then it would seem logical that one could embrace the teaching of Baha'u'llah.
would it be likely?....God continues to speak
choosing a person here and there....
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
I believe God speaks through all beings, as emanations of himself. I don't believe anyone is 'special' like how this is interpreted. OTOH, fundamentalism comes in many shades.
well then.....Hitler was very special
 

Trackdayguy

Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
The whole issue of polygamy in the bible is an interesting one and makes sense in an historic context.

Polygamy in Christianity - Wikipedia

In Islam Muhammad had many wives as was the customs of the pagan tribes. However He limited the number to four.

Baha'u'llah had three wives as was the custom of Persian nobility at that stage and said that a man could have more than one wife if He would treat them with equal justice. His eldest son Abdu'l-Baha who became the leader of the Faith and authorised interpreter stated it was impossible to treat two wives with equal justice and the standard should be monogamy which he upheld.

There is nothing in the sacred writings of Judaism, Christianity, Islam or the Baha'i writings that says sex is bad.

Shoghi Effendi, the guardian of the Faith has stated;

The Bahá’í Faith recognizes the value of the sex impulse, but condemns its illegitimate and improper expression such as free love, companionate marriage and others, all of which it considers positively harmful to man and to the society in which he lives. The proper use of the sex instinct is the natural right of every individual, and it is precisely for this very purpose that the institution of marriage has been established. The Bahá’ís do not believe in the suppression of the sex impulse but in its regulation and control.




1/ Baha'u'llah like Christ showed innate knowledge and outstanding character in His childhood. There is nothing I'm aware of that would suggest otherwise.

The Life of Bahá’u’lláh | What Bahá’ís Believe

2/ While I agree with what you say, living the life is also essential (James 2:14-26).

3/ I never said it did.

Baha'u'llah literally translated means Glory of God. The phrase the 'Glory of the Lord' which refers to Baha'u'llah is mentioned four times in Isaiah:

It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

Isaiah 35:2

And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Isaiah 40:5

Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.
Isaiah 58:8

Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:1

4/


Do you practice polyamory?

In answer to your question yes we do, Me, my wife, my girl friend & my wife's girl friend. Its wonderful and no strife. in 7 years.

So it's ok for Baha'ullah to have three wives, yet his son say NO its not possible. So the God mans son makes a law and says 1 wife.

With respect but do you guys ever question anything.

You may find this interesting
http://7cars.ca/documents/sex/Sexual Lust.pdf
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
With respect but do you guys ever question anything.

The flesh is weak.

Matthew 26:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak"

When we turn to things of this world, it is the flesh that speaks for us and God allows us this folly. God tests us with the good of this world and the world to come.

Regards Tony
 
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