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If You Believe In God Would You Test Your Belief If You Could?

TDselector

Is God an Alternative Fact?
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact. Information is derived from either ambiguous or unambiguous sources. If the source of the information is unambiguous then belief is prohibited. If the source of the information is ambiguous then belief, otherwise known as alternative fact, serves as substitute for unambiguous information. In order to validate, without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?

To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?

selection_DI.jpg
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The funny thing is, God is so seamless even when a prayer is answered it leaves you wondering if it just happened or did God really do it. There is no way to test belief.
 
TDselector, you can test your belief:

2 Corinthians 13
5Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?6And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not so that people will see that we have stood the test but so that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed. 8For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.9We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is that you may be fully restored. 10This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority—the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
TDselector, you can test your belief:

2 Corinthians 13
5Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?6And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. 7Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong—not so that people will see that we have stood the test but so that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed. 8For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth.9We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is that you may be fully restored. 10This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority—the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down.

You need an umbiased test.

I remember reading in the dictionary looking up a word, say, sat. Say I wanted to know what that meant without referring to past tense definitions. I read "someone who sits."

What is a creator? Someone who creates. He is the creator of our earth. He created everything. See in gensis 1:1 god created the heavens and the earth.

Its redundant. Name an outside source that proves god's existence and if you can find one, would you test your faith?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Evidence for God is so damn obvious you have to be kinda blind not to see it.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The funny thing is, God is so seamless even when a prayer is answered it leaves you wondering if it just happened or did God really do it. There is no way to test belief.

Well, you could make yourself vulniable to other truths, researching them, and even applying another god as the origin of your belief. Making yourself open can probably test how much you tune out other parts of life that you could consider have nothing to do with god.

Like pretending I have another mother. Then making myself open to he possibility that I do. If you good at it you can find some sense in it without making things up.

Belief is flexible. Facts are not. How are your beliefs facts if you cant test it?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact. Information is derived from either ambiguous or unambiguous sources. If the source of the information is unambiguous then belief is prohibited. If the source of the information is ambiguous then belief, otherwise known as alternative fact, serves as substitute for unambiguous information. In order to validate, without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?

To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?

View attachment 16507

Yeah. Id try to make myself aware of things outside of what I believe is true. It will give me an idea of what or who god is and appreciate it more than I believe This over That.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact. Information is derived from either ambiguous or unambiguous sources. If the source of the information is unambiguous then belief is prohibited. If the source of the information is ambiguous then belief, otherwise known as alternative fact, serves as substitute for unambiguous information. In order to validate, without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?

To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?

View attachment 16507
such as......turn a stone to bread on request?
step from a high place and expect to be saved from a bad fall?
rise to power by means of a kneeling?

I think the Carpenter's walk in the wilderness demonstrated the need to refrain

still.....you could ask God for anything
we humans do so all the time
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Well, you could make yourself vulniable to other truths, researching them, and even applying another god as the origin of your belief. Making yourself open can probably test how much you tune out other parts of life that you could consider have nothing to do with god.

Like pretending I have another mother. Then making myself open to he possibility that I do. If you good at it you can find some sense in it without making things up.

Belief is flexible. Facts are not. How are your beliefs facts if you cant test it?

No I mean things like. I prayed to quit smoking after years of failing by my own devices. Then after I prayed I quit cold turkey, without any desire to smoke. That one's a little hard to deny. But one day I was fishing and said to the Lord, lets catch a big fish. The next cast was sort of funny, like it was guided to the exact spot my eyes focused at, then wham, caught a nice fish. But still since God is invisible it leaves you wondering, did God do it or did it just happen that way.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact. Information is derived from either ambiguous or unambiguous sources. If the source of the information is unambiguous then belief is prohibited. If the source of the information is ambiguous then belief, otherwise known as alternative fact, serves as substitute for unambiguous information. In order to validate, without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?

To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?

View attachment 16507

I'm really not seeing what the test is supposed to be, and not only because the link is migraine inducing.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
No I mean things like. I prayed to quit smoking after years of failing by my own devices. Then after I prayed I quit cold turkey, without any desire to smoke. That one's a little hard to deny.

But one day I was fishing and said to the Lord, lets catch a big fish. The next cast was sort of funny, like it was guided to the exact spot my eyes focused at, then wham, caught a nice fish. But still since God is invisible it leaves you wondering, did God do it or did it just happen that way.

Ima challenge you since we're talking about testing your faith.

I argue (make a statement of challenge) that what you believe is synchronicity not god. Synchronicity is which "holds events are "meaningful coincidences" if they occur with no causal relationship yet seem to be meaningfully related." or better definition:

"The simultaneous occurrence of causally unrelated events and the belief that the simultaneity has meaning beyond mere coincidence."

The smoking (outsider in) sounds more to do with your devotion to stop smoking not an outside force. If you want something to happen and you find it hard to do, your subconscious is constantly making an attempt to solve the problem. Solving problems, especially big ones, make us more eager and aware of possible answers. If it is something like abuse, the answer may be the victim developing an "other" inside her head as a survival technique as it puts a wall between her and the abuse experience. I know smoking isn't like abuse, but I'm sure you kinda get my point?

If we are in love with someone we just met, we look for things that may not be there but we are blind to that (in some cases) if we do not "test ourselves" (aka the thread title) in what we believe is true or an alternative fact.

Also, prayer is a huge motivator for many people to "get up an do things" and it's another form of meditation to let you be "aware" of things that in life is everyday but to you they are meaningful and to god-believers they attribute this awe-some event to god.

Since god is invisible, then how can you ascertain that god helped you stop smoking or help you catch a fish. We can attach meaningful things to an outside party to help ourselves. Many people do (like the abuse thing). Our praying to the lord is the same as my picking up a pencil and devoting myself to my art. It's an action that motivates us inside and outside. Does it have to do with god? Since god is invisible, the closest we can come is how humans interpret god and their relation to him.

Hundreds of people find it hard to do this without, I guess, feeling silly (just guessing). Scriptures of different religions, community, family, etc help confirm (confirmation bias) what they believe is true. It's like saying something is in a empty box because we have no way of seeing whats in it. I mean, you can use the box to stand up on and get your cereal. It can be useful, that does not mean anything is in the box anymore than a motivated atheist who shakes the box redundantly as if something will magically appear.

Like doesn't work that way. If someone makes a claim that nothing is in the box, it is just a claim. Likewise, the other way around. However, I haven't heard any believers of the box present non-bias information. On the other end, I bring a psychological explanation of why we think something is in the box. But nothing pops out of thin air.

Maybe people are lying?
Maybe we don't know.

That is from our point of view. People can't really think too much from their point of view, so some people turn to god.

Nothing wrong with that. Just an interesting observation after my religious experiences.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact. Information is derived from either ambiguous or unambiguous sources. If the source of the information is unambiguous then belief is prohibited. If the source of the information is ambiguous then belief, otherwise known as alternative fact, serves as substitute for unambiguous information. In order to validate, without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?

To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?
Perhaps because your opening paragraph is pretentious nonsense and watching you bravely pummel s straw-man of your own construction is not even entertaining.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact. Information is derived from either ambiguous or unambiguous sources. If the source of the information is unambiguous then belief is prohibited. If the source of the information is ambiguous then belief, otherwise known as alternative fact, serves as substitute for unambiguous information. In order to validate, without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?

To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?
For many of us who do not know yet if it is worth the time to read a rather lengthy link can you distill what it is you want to debate in a more concise fashion. At first glance, a test for God is a little out there.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Can you provide some examples?
From the point of view of God's immanence

Kabir:
Does Khuda live in the mosque?
Then who who lives everywhere?
Is Ram in idols and holy ground?
Have you looked and found him there?
Hari in the East, Allah in the West -
So you like to dream.
Search in the heart, in the heart alone:
There live Ram and Karim.


Ending of the movie "They Might Be Giants":
"The human heart can see what's hidden to the eyes, and the heart knows things that the mind does not begin to understand."

Peter, Paul and Mary Unicorn Song:
And now that I am grown, my best friend lives inside of me
The others smile at me and call me crazy
But I am not upset, for long ago I found the key
I've always known their seeing must be hazy.



 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant of unambiguous information otherwise known as fact... To date, not a single believer in God has exhibited the conviction and integrity of their belief to test their faith via a simple experiment (see link). Why is that?

Are you still going on about this "kill yourself" test idea of yours?

I understand that you are saying that choices must be made in order to survive - that "free will" is basically proven by the fact that you have to make a choice of some kind (for instance, to go get some water), in order for your body to go on living.

However, you then seem to want to apply that idea as a proof against everything for which there is no verifiable evidence - which I don't get at all. For one thing - that we have "free will" is a central idea in the Christian faith. And how does the proof that choices must be made to survive in a physical body negate all ideas of non-physical realities or supernatural forces of any kind? Your little "thought experiment" does not, to my mind, extend that far. It's jurisdiction is "free will", and it basically stops there. Not that I believe in any of that crap, mind you - I am just trying to wrap my head around why you think this idea of yours has merit in all categories of belief-based "knowledge."
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
From the point of view of God's immanence

Kabir:
Does Khuda live in the mosque?
Then who who lives everywhere?
Is Ram in idols and holy ground?
Have you looked and found him there?
Hari in the East, Allah in the West -
So you like to dream.
Search in the heart, in the heart alone:
There live Ram and Karim.


Ending of the movie "They Might Be Giants":
"The human heart can see what's hidden to the eyes, and the heart knows things that the mind does not begin to understand."

Peter, Paul and Mary Unicorn Song:
And now that I am grown, my best friend lives inside of me
The others smile at me and call me crazy
But I am not upset, for long ago I found the key
I've always known their seeing must be hazy.


Is this a joke? This isn't evidence of any god. These are random claims about there being more to life than what meets the eye. Where is the evidence?
 
without ambiguity, your belief in God would you test in real life if your existence is God given or not and would you then accept the results?
View attachment 16507

Testing has already started! And the implications and results may very well change the course of history.

The first wholly new interpretation for two thousand years of the moral teachings of Christ has been published. Radically different from anything else we know of from theology or history, this new teaching is predicated upon the 'promise' of a precise, predefined, predictable and repeatable experience of transcendent omnipotence and called 'the first Resurrection' in the sense that the Resurrection of Jesus was intended to demonstrate Gods' willingness to reveal Himself and intervene directly into the natural world for those obedient to His Command, paving the way for access, by faith, to the power of divine Will and ultimate proof!

Thus 'faith' becomes an act of trust in action, the search along a defined path of strict self discipline, [a test of the human heart] to discover His 'Word' of a direct individual intervention into the natural world by omnipotent power that confirms divine will, law, command and covenant, which at the same time, realigns our mortal moral compass with the Divine, "correcting human nature by a change in natural law, altering biology, consciousness and human ethical perception beyond all natural evolutionary boundaries."

So like it or no, a new religious teaching, fully testable by faith, meeting all Enlightenment criteria of evidence based causation and definitive proof now exists. Nothing short of an intellectual, moral and religious revolution is getting under way. To test or not to test, that is the question? More info at The Final Freedoms
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Testing has already started! And the implications and results may very well change the course of history.

The first wholly new interpretation for two thousand years of the moral teachings of Christ has been published. Radically different from anything else we know of from theology or history, this new teaching is predicated upon the 'promise' of a precise, predefined, predictable and repeatable experience of transcendent omnipotence and called 'the first Resurrection' in the sense that the Resurrection of Jesus was intended to demonstrate Gods' willingness to reveal Himself and intervene directly into the natural world for those obedient to His Command, paving the way for access, by faith, to the power of divine Will and ultimate proof!

Thus 'faith' becomes an act of trust in action, the search along a defined path of strict self discipline, [a test of the human heart] to discover His 'Word' of a direct individual intervention into the natural world by omnipotent power that confirms divine will, law, command and covenant, which at the same time, realigns our mortal moral compass with the Divine, "correcting human nature by a change in natural law, altering biology, consciousness and human ethical perception beyond all natural evolutionary boundaries."

So like it or no, a new religious teaching, fully testable by faith, meeting all Enlightenment criteria of evidence based causation and definitive proof now exists. Nothing short of an intellectual, moral and religious revolution is getting under way. To test or not to test, that is the question? More info at The Final Freedoms

What you've written is a terrible mishmash of words and ideas that isn't always coherent. If you feel as though God is driving you to write these things, or write in this way, then maybe you should take a hard look at who this "God" is. He doesn't seem very good at relaying ideas succinctly or understandably. What you've written reads more like you just threw a bunch of religious sounding gobbledygook together and hope it reads like wisdom. I am being 100% honest.
 

miodrag

Member
In order to believe, it is necessary to be ignorant...

That is your take on belief. Some people discriminate between a belief, faith, hope and trust.

Example is that after God successfully passes the imaginary test, my 'belief' would go even stronger. Philosophy would argue what the 'fact' means exactly. As well as the quantum physics. What is an electron, a wave or a particle? It is both, but that depends on the observer. So observer is the measure of the factual outcome.

Maybe you should rather ask about belief vs. gnosis?


Why is that?

This maybe: 'You shall not test the Lord, your God.'
 
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