If you Baptised Your saved??????

[lionofjudah4iver]

I just got done reasoning with a Christian friend of mine that was trying to tell I that if you were baptised then you are already saved. They was she put it was that on Judgement day if your baptised then you will have a better chance of getting to heaven then the man who isnt. I would just like your thoughts as Christians on this.
Rasta Love Rule The World

 

[Aqualung]

I just got done reasoning with a Christian friend of mine that was trying to tell I that if you were baptised then you are already saved.

That's not true at all. That's rather a rediculous thing to say. You also have to repent of your sins. Actually, repentence of sins is a requirement for baptism, but now that you're baptised doesn't mean the you can just go around doing whatever you want and still be guarunteed the best spot in heaven. You have to work for you spot.

They was she put it was that on Judgement day if your baptised then you will have a better chance of getting to heaven then the man who isnt.

I don't beleive that this is true either. There have been so many who have died without baptism that this is just not a valid interpretation. That would mean that if you happened to die in an area of the world where there just aren't people performing baptisms with the proper authority, such as some remote village in the middle of africa, they would go to hell. This doesn't make sense, especially if those people in Africa happen to be living better lives than some of the people who have been baptised.
As a side note, though, I beleive that people can be baptised after death, and that everybody will have ample chance to be baptised. So if you look at it that way, then the only people who, in the end, won't be baptised, are those who just flat out refuse to accept Jesus, and know that they are rejecting Jesus the Son of God and our Lord and Saviour. There's not much hope for them.

There's my rather broad, undetailed views. Hope that helps at least a little bit.

 

[Katzpur]

I just got done reasoning with a Christian friend of mine that was trying to tell I that if you were baptised then you are already saved. They was she put it was that on Judgement day if your baptised then you will have a better chance of getting to heaven then the man who isnt. I would just like your thoughts as Christians on this.
Rasta Love Rule The World

Baptism is a good first step (well, a second step actually, the first being faith in the Lord Jesus Christ), but nobody ever got saved merely by being baptized.

 

[lionofjudah4iver]

As a side note, though, I beleive that people can be baptised after death, and that everybody will have ample chance to be baptised. So if you look at it that way, then the only people who, in the end, won't be baptised, are those who just flat out refuse to accept Jesus, and know that they are rejecting Jesus the Son of God and our Lord and Saviour. There's not much hope for them.

Seen. I understand where you are coming from. When you speak of baptism after death I am assuming you are refering to a spiritual baptism instead of a phisical. If that is the case then wouldnt everybody that Jah alow in his Kingdom be spirtualy baptised and everybody that flat out refuses Jesus not baptised. So its not like you will really have a choice because its Jah who chose you if you go to heaven.
Blessings

 

[Aqualung]

Seen. I understand where you are coming from. When you speak of baptism after death I am assuming you are refering to a spiritual baptism instead of a phisical. If that is the case then wouldnt everybody that Jah alow in his Kingdom be spirtualy baptised and everybody that flat out refuses Jesus not baptised. So its not like you will really have a choice because its Jah who chose you if you go to heaven.
Blessings

Well, not really spiritually, but not really physically. You would have to be baptised with somebody else as a stand in. For example, if my mother died without being baptised, somebody else would have to be physically baptised on her behalf. I could be baptised for her. Does that make sense?
And then she can refuse to receive that baptism. she doens't have to accept the gift, that I was baptised for her. She could say, well, that was a waste of time, becuase I don't want it.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

You must be baptized in order to be saved. It's there in black & white. But that's not the end of your responsibility as a Christian. It is a lifetime commitment. Faith without works is dead. You can't just be baptized and say "Wow, I'm glad that's over with. I guess I'll just live my life however I want to now that I'm saved." You can't knowingly commit sin and refuse to repent. You also need to try to bring others to Christ. There's a lot more to it than just getting baptized.

 

[lionofjudah4iver]

You must be baptized in order to be saved. It's there in black & white. But that's not the end of your responsibility as a Christian. It is a lifetime commitment. Faith without works is dead. You can't just be baptized and say "Wow, I'm glad that's over with. I guess I'll just live my life however I want to now that I'm saved." You can't knowingly commit sin and refuse to repent. You also need to try to bring others to Christ. There's a lot more to it than just getting baptized.

Well you sound a lot like my friend. I don't think that it is a must. I don't think you need to be baptized in any form to be saved. If you love Jah and follow the teachings of Jesus and Halie Selassie I and lead a good rightous life then I belive you will be accepted in to heaven. I don't quite understand how many Chirstians think. Its kinda like they are old people because they are so set in there ways and don't ever wanna change for anything. Most that I have reasoned with thought that it is Christianiy or hell. Thats what I was taught growing up. As for baptizm if you are right which I don't think you are, but I can't say because I am not the Almighty, then I am lucky then because I was baptized and rasied a Roman Cathlic. But I guess my faith must not have been strong because that didn't last long.

Aqualung
I don't realy understand what you mean. Maybe it is because it is new to me. I don't realy see the point if someone is dead for a living body to be physicaly baptized. That person is already in the Glory of God. And what do you mean that they can choose to accept or not. If your mother is dead how is she gonna choose to accept your baptizm. In heaven? If so then how do you know exactly what choices she will have after death? If any?
Blessed Love

 

[Katzpur]

I don't realy understand what you mean. Maybe it is because it is new to me. I don't realy see the point if someone is dead for a living body to be physicaly baptized. That person is already in the Glory of God. And what do you mean that they can choose to accept or not. If your mother is dead how is she gonna choose to accept your baptizm. In heaven? If so then how do you know exactly what choices she will have after death? If any?

It's a belief that Aqualung and I share, lion. Jesus stressed the need for baptism. He said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 3:15). He also said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Matthew 16:16). There were millions who lived prior to Jesus Christ who never knew of His gospel. Millions more have lived since His death in parts of the world where Christianity is virtually unknown. Still others have, due to no fault of their own, misconceptions about Christ's gospel and the need for baptism. We don't believe that God would condemn these people to an eternity in Hell just because of an accident of birth.

We believe that, after death, the spirit of the deceased continues to live and to grow. It does not go immediately to Heaven, but to the Spirit World spoken of in the Bible. There, those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel during their lives, will be taught and will have the opportunity to accept Jesus' atoning sacrifice on their behalfs. But what about the need for baptism? Jesus never said He intended to overlook this requirement for anybody. And yet a spirit has no flesh and bones. It can't be baptized for obvious reasons.

Well, that's where baptism for the dead comes into play. We believe that we can be baptized by proxy for a relative who died without having received this ordinance. Since the person's spirit (which is really the essence of who he is) is eternal (i.e. only the physical body actually "dies"), he can either accept or reject the baptism done for him. If he rejects it, it will be as if it was never done. But, if he accepts it, it is as if he had been baptized himself. When at last the day comes when each person stands before God to be judged, all of these people will have has the opportunity to (1) have embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ and (2) received (by proxy) the required ordinance of baptism.

This is a practice of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It was also a practice of Jesus' followers in the ancient Church. If you have any questions on the subject, feel free to ask.

Kathryn

 

[Aqualung]

what she said.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

I don't know how much store you set by the words of the Bible (no offense meant, or anything) or how much of it you believe to be true, Lion. I know absolutely nothing about RASTAFARI, but here is what is says:

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16

Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:38

And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16

...buried with him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead.
Colossians 2:3

Now, if you believe in all that the Bible has to say, as I do, there is no way you can say that baptism is not neccessary.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Ooops, sorry, I posted that last one before I read Katzpur's most recent post. I actually cited some of the verses she did. You explained it quite well,Katzpur.

I think we have made our point now !

 

[joeboonda]

What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved. Trust in His blood that cleansed us from our sin, and you are saved. Baptism is an outward expression of that. It is not a requirement, and I will not argue it. Believe in what Christ did on the cross to wash away your sins and you are saved. No good work or ordinance or ritual or sacrament can save anybody. Only by trusting Christ are we saved. Repentance is a change of mind, from your way, to God's way of salvation. He said if you believe in Him, in his redemtive work on the cross, you are saved at that moment.

 

[Aqualung]

Ooops, sorry, I posted that last one before I read Katzpur's most recent post. I actually cited some of the verses she did. You explained it quite well,Katzpur.

I think we have made our point now !

Well, not to joeboonda! :jam:

 

[Katzpur]

What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved. Trust in His blood that cleansed us from our sin, and you are saved. Baptism is an outward expression of that. It is not a requirement, and I will not argue it. Believe in what Christ did on the cross to wash away your sins and you are saved. No good work or ordinance or ritual or sacrament can save anybody. Only by trusting Christ are we saved. Repentance is a change of mind, from your way, to God's way of salvation. He said if you believe in Him, in his redemtive work on the cross, you are saved at that moment.

Or, you can always choose to believe what Jesus actually said, repent of your sins, enter into a covenant relationship with Him through baptism, and strive to obey His commandments. (I won't argue my point either. )

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Again, Katzpur and I are thinking alike.

 

[joeboonda]

Yeah, we have debated the baptism thing before, we would go round and round, although we all believe in baptism, we have a slightly different slant. I mainly would stress to folks that the main thing we must do, the one thing we must do, in Jesus' words, is we must be born again. That is we place our trust completely in his redemtive work on the cross, trusting that what he did paid for our sins, his blood washing them away. If you can at least believe that, trust in that, then I think you've got it.

 

[lionofjudah4iver]

What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved. Trust in His blood that cleansed us from our sin, and you are saved. Baptism is an outward expression of that. It is not a requirement, and I will not argue it. Believe in what Christ did on the cross to wash away your sins and you are saved. No good work or ordinance or ritual or sacrament can save anybody. Only by trusting Christ are we saved. Repentance is a change of mind, from your way, to God's way of salvation. He said if you believe in Him, in his redemtive work on the cross, you are saved at that moment.

Same thinking here. I belive that every thing you need to be "saved" Jah has put in you at birth. You don't need the Bible you don't need church you dont need baptizm i dont even think you need Jesus. All you need is a natural love of the most high. if you have unconditinal love for God then he see this and always love back. if you dont have the opportunity to know Jesus because of where you come from then i dont think that Jah hold this against you. But if you have been taught and learn about Jesus and have a bible to know HIM and reject then i dont think u will be forgiven.
Give thanks to the Most High JAH Rastafari

 

[Katzpur]

You don't need the Bible you don't need church you dont need baptizm i dont even think you need Jesus.

I'm on the edge of my seat, wondering what joeboonda will have to say about your not even needing Jesus.

If you dont have the opportunity to know Jesus because of where you come from then i dont think that Jah hold this against you.

Me neither. But I think that all will be given this opportunity, if not during mortality, then during the period in between their death and their resurrection. God will allow every one of His children to choose for themselves. He won't make the decision for any of them.

 

[lionofjudah4iver]

I think that all will be given this opportunity, if not during mortality, then during the period in between their death and their resurrection.

you say that they will be shown the Christ in between there death and there resurrection. I say resurrect Christ on a daily basis in your own heart. Why wait unitll your dead to start. Every day is a gift and a blessing from above and a chance to see the Almighty within. He is always with us it is just our deal to see.

Just some wise words from FiyahBun on another forum.

"I feel that it is a dangerous thing when people take holy books as literal. Be it Kebra, Bible, Koran etc. None of these books are in my estimation to be taken wholly as literal. It is true they contain some historical references but overall they are books of Mythology. HIM said that ones should accept the MESSAGE with a clear conscience. And that is how I accept the Bible. Most of the miracles are metaphors. One must overstand that Christ is a consciousness though a perfected one can manifest it. The blood/life of the lamb in the spiritual sense is representing self sacrifice/lower nature. It is in that regard that I and I is saved. By resurrecting the christ within."

 

[Aqualung]

Why wait unitll your dead to start

Because not everybody will get the opportunity to hear of him before death