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If we are saved by Grace, why are we judged by Works?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by wild20, Sep 30, 2005.

  1. wild20

    wild20 New Member

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    The answer, I have found, is simple. This is going to be quite consroversial, so buckle your seatbelts. I would like to, if possible, do a little debating on whether or not we are saved through grace and judged by works. I will start with my opinion.

    Why we are saved by grace:
    The bible says
    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

    So we are saved by grace. By Jesus giving is very own life for YOU, and shedding His blood on the cross, you are saved by His grace. But only if you believe it. Grace, is a free gift, no strings attached. But I have found that you have to do something with that gift. Its like this, when you get a gift card from someone, do you hide it under your bed? No. Why not? If you didn't, and the giver asked what you did with it, what could you say but, "I hid it, and now I can't use it". It would be very disappointing to the giver, wouldn't it? Now, what if you said to the person, "you have to give me another one, I am sorry I didn't spend it, can't you give me another one?" The giver will most likely not give you another one. Now think about that story, I will come back to it a little later.

    Why we are judged by works:

    Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    So, here we have mankind being judged by works. Why? I have a text to show why.

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    I love that text, because it shows two things, one, we are to keep God's commandments. Every last one. This is not being legalistic, this is love! If you love God, you will keep His commandments which He put in place to protect you! If we do not keep God's commandments, we do not shwo we love Him. REmember the story, if you don't accept the gift, then do something with it, than you are at the loss. God cannot force Himself on you. By accepting His free gift, you should naturally want to keep His commandments. So, any objections? That is my take on it. So debate on!
     
    Aqualung likes this.
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 New Member

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    8,303
    Well said!

    "For freedom Christ has set us free" (Gal 5:1)... freedom to do what? Serve the Lord! God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.

    Peace in Christ,
    Scott
     
  3. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Religion:
    Anglican...heretic
    Can't really argue wth that.
    But is one more important than the other?
    and can one ever be saved by the one without the other?

    Terry________________________
    Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
     
  4. wild20

    wild20 New Member

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    Thanks guys. Actually Terry, I do believe under certain times, there is an exception. Like someone who is dying, they may ave never heard about God, but yearn for something inside, they strive to do good, and because of it, they will be judged accordingly. These people, I believe, may go to heaven. This doesn't make works the sole way of being saved, but for people who are informed of this message, I believe they must follow God's commandments, not out of their want to be saved, but out of obedience. This will please anyone to know that they are following God's word. And no, I don't think one is more important than the other. Both are equal, like the day and night, both, are needed for survival. God bless you guys.
     
  5. Merlin

    Merlin New Member

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    810
    So you believe only Christians go to heaven Do you?
     
  6. wild20

    wild20 New Member

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    No Merlin, you misunderstood me, I believe that non-Christians will go to heaven. This is because people who are not Christians and have not heard about Jesus will be judged solely by their works and actions, because their actions will still reflect their hearts true state. But those who are Christians or believe in God, they will be judged based on Grace, which they have accepted, and Works, which will still reflect their love of the God. Sorry for that misunderstanding.
     
  7. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    9,497
    but there are people out there who have heard about Jesus yet choose not to be christian
    what of them?
     
  8. Feathers in Hair

    Feathers in Hair World's Tallest Hobbit

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    Not at all, Wild20! We usually try to keep any discussion about what a person believes in the other forums, not the Biblical Debates one, so I'm sorry that the question was brought up in this forum. Thank you for your kind answer, though!
     
  9. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus Staff Member

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    28,683
    I agree; We will all be judged on a 'frame of reference' basic, I believe. Ie, if you have been a good person (and an atheist) the fact that you were an atheist will have nothing to do with your 'chances'.
     
  10. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Although I somewhat I agree. What do you GAIN by being a Christian if your statement is true?

    ~Victor
     
  11. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    I hate to disappoint you, but I don't find this controversial in the slightest. It is precisely what I personally believe! :)
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    25,293
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Or maybe God will actually give them the opportunity to hear the Gospel before judging them... You know, make the playing field level before the Final Judgment so that He doesn't just have to disregard what He said about Jesus Christ being the Way.
     
  13. TashaN

    TashaN Islamopolitan Staff Member Premium Member

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    13,293
    If your statment is correct about christianity so why people should accept Jesus as a savior or you just mean if someone accepted Jesus as savior so he will be in a higher degree in heaven than the others?
     
  14. napen

    napen New Member

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    I would like to give you the following:

    26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse- 27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today; 28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the LORD your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.
    Deuteronomy 11:26-28 (New International Version)



    In the Garden, God gave Adam and Eve the “freewill” to choose how they will live their lives. This means that God do not control the way we want our life to be. We will enjoy good and happy life if we will follow His commandments and will suffer pain and hardships if we will disobey His will and worship other gods which we really do not know.

    By this we are judged by God, not by Jesus since he was only by God to fulfill a task... even Jesus cannot save you really, to prove it...

    25"Though I have been speaking figuratively, a time is coming when I will no longer use this kind of language but will tell you plainly about my Father. 26In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying that I will ask the Father on your behalf.
    John 16:25-26

    also...

    What is the proof that God is consistent in His decree regarding "the blessing and the curse?" Why are the people and the prophets in the Old Testament that had followed God's commandments were all saved; from destruction (Lot), from the flood (Noah), from the lions (Daniel), from the big fish (Jonah), from the fire (Daniel's friends), and from their enemies (David) to name a few, and why is it, in the New Testament, all who have followed Jesus, starting from Jesus, were all killed? Does it mean that the God in the Old Testament is different from the God of the New Testament? We should understand that God is consistent in His decree regarding the "blessings and curses", He had given examples in the Bible so that we will know how to receive the blessings and not the curses.


    Maybe this can give a clear understanding why sometimes when we pray we are not answered, again, think of it...

    To prove that we are really cursed, the question is - Can we still find a country or a nation that is truly progressive and not have any problems? The answer is NO. Because countries nowadays are experiencing different forms of misfortunes; war, famine, disaster, pestilence, and worsening economic crises. And since we can no longer find a single country that is not suffering from any of these conditions, Maestro told us that it is a sign that the world is truly cursed!

    Are we not experiencing them at present? This is the time we should think about God and how will these calamities stop...


     
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