If there is no God. . . ?

[Spiritman]

If there is no God, think of the billions of people that are wasting there time in attempting to be righteous. The idea that there is a God provides humanity with a structure for living a good life; those who say there is not a God are free from a tremendous number of restraints on what they can do. Here is a list of what humans can do when freed from the harness of God's restraints. This list assumes God is not really real and is intended to reveal what a chaotic and evil world it would be if there was no God. Fell free to expand on this list and add to it so all can see that the world really needs a God to give us meaning and a reliable code of ethics for living. We are intensely interested if anyone can list a good consequence of there not being a God.

1. Since there is not a God, there can be no God based ethics and humanism is supreme.
2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.
3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.
4. ????
5. ???

 

[oldcajun]

If there is no God, think of the billions of people that are wasting there time in attempting to be righteous. The idea that there is a God provides humanity with a structure for living a good life; those who say there is not a God are free from a tremendous number of restraints on what they can do. Here is a list of what humans can do when freed from the harness of God's restraints. This list assumes God is not really real and is intended to reveal what a chaotic and evil world it would be if there was no God. Fell free to expand on this list and add to it so all can see that the world really needs a God to give us meaning and a reliable code of ethics for living. We are intensely interested if anyone can list a good consequence of there not being a God.

1. Since there is not a God, there can be no God based ethics and humanism is supreme.
2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.
3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.
4. Since there is no God, my life has no value beyond the sensual.
5. Since there is no God, truth and falsehood have equal value.

 

[whereismynotecard]

......is intended to reveal what a chaotic and evil world it would be if there was no God.

Don't you mean to say "what a chaotic and evil world it would be if no one believed in God?"

Because as far as I see, there is no God.

Anyway, If no one believed in God, maybe people could focus on what was real instead of basing their entire lives on a book that someone made up in order to keep humanity in check... Maybe... >_>

Just because someone doesn't believe in god doesn't mean they are going to go around killing people... I haven't believed in god since I was 13 or so, and I've not killed anyone yet.

 

[Nessa]

3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.

I didn't realize being a believer entitled you to categorically condemn billions of people. Not to mention, it's ridiculous to pretend only believers of your faith have morals.

 

[Papersock]

1. Since there is not a God, there can be no God based ethics and humanism is supreme.
2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.
3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.

1. I agree with the first part, I'm not as sure about the second part.
2. Well, all the rights listed in the constitution so far have been from an alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.
3. You still have the consequences of your actions. If you are free to harm
others than others are more likely to harm you. We'd all benefit from being nice to each other.

 

[Father Heathen]

1. Since there is not a God, there can be no God based ethics and humanism is supreme.

Ethics and morals have always been human inventions. We are social animals, where interaction was needed to survive and thrive and so such codes were necessary. Of course as human civilization advanced, our moral codes evolved. Today, secular western morality is founded in logic, liberty, mutual interests and our innate compassion. No Gods needed or required.

2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.

The Constitution came from the minds of men. Brilliant men, but men nonetheless. It was not religious inspired and in fact was intended by those who penned it to be a secular document. If one were to study both, they would find that The Constitution and The Bible greatly conflict with one another. This explains why religious folk area always trying to trample the constitution and violate the rights it grants.

3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.

This is a ridiculous statement. Our actions always have consequences albeit earthly ones. There are potential legal ramifications, health ramifications, reputation, consequences of risk vs. reward, etc, etc. Action and reaction, cause and effect, etc. no invisible sky daddy or voodoo about it.

4. Since there is no God, my life has no value beyond the sensual.

You would have to be a pretty shallow, simple and superficial person if you actually need a "god" to find value beyond the sensual. Honor, honesty, hope, dignity, glory self-worth, fellowship, etc. we can value and embody these things without the need for mythological beings.

5. Since there is no God, truth and falsehood have equal value.

This statement makes no sense. 2+2+god=4 vs. 2+2-god+5? Reality doesn't bend to superstitious presumptions of it.

 

[rojse]

If there is no God, think of the billions of people that are wasting there time in attempting to be righteous. The idea that there is a God provides humanity with a structure for living a good life;

Whether this is true or not, this does not prove that God should exist. Rather, at best, it proves that it is desirable for you to believe that God exists.

those who say there is not a God are free from a tremendous number of restraints on what they can do.

No, there are still numerous laws and social balances that keep people in check.

Here is a list of what humans can do when freed from the harness of God's restraints. This list assumes God is not really real and is intended to reveal what a chaotic and evil world it would be if there was no God. Fell free to expand on this list and add to it so all can see that the world really needs a God to give us meaning and a reliable code of ethics for living. We are intensely interested if anyone can list a good consequence of there not being a God.

1. Since there is not a God, there can be no God based ethics and humanism is supreme.

There have been good actions conducted under the name of god, bad actions conducted under the name of God. What does the loss of God-based ethics mean, then?

2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.

I am not too familiar with American laws, but I do know that the American constitution was drafted without predjudice towards any religion, or those without religion.

3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.

Firstly, there are numerous laws to keep people in check. If God was suddenly conclusively disproved to you, you cannot just go out and murder, rape and pillage - there are numerous government departments such as the police and the criminal justice system set up to punish you for doing so.

Secondly, if the only thing preventing you going on a wanton rampage is that God keeps an eye on you, what does that say about you as an individual?

4. If God did not exist, theosophers would be out of a job.
5. If God did not exist, we could all argue about the merits of sport instead.
6. If God did not exist, this forum would have to be changed to the Irreligious Education Forum.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

If there is no God, think of the billions of people that are wasting there time in attempting to be righteous. The idea that there is a God provides humanity with a structure for living a good life; those who say there is not a God are free from a tremendous number of restraints on what they can do. Here is a list of what humans can do when freed from the harness of God's restraints. This list assumes God is not really real and is intended to reveal what a chaotic and evil world it would be if there was no God. Fell free to expand on this list and add to it so all can see that the world really needs a God to give us meaning and a reliable code of ethics for living. We are intensely interested if anyone can list a good consequence of there not being a God.

1. Since there is not a God, there can be no God based ethics and humanism is supreme.
2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.
3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.
4. Since there is no God, my life has no value beyond the sensual.
5. Since there is no God, truth and falsehood have equal value.

As if any of this has any bearing on whether or not god exists...I'm happy to say that my morals come from compassion and are not the result of rules and restrictions applied to me.

 

[Sunstone]

There is no principle of logic that says something must be the case simply because we do not like the consequences if it were not the case. On the contrary, such an argument is illogical. So, it is not legitimate grounds to believe in god simply because we do not like the consequences of there being no god. In fact, that kind of thinking leads to delusions, IMHO.

 

[Sunstone]

If there is no God, think of the billions of people that are wasting there time in attempting to be righteous.

Are you suggesting the only reason you'd try to be "righteous" is because you believe there's a god? Wouldn't that be an amazingly superficial righteousness?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Spiritman -

I have to say that with your firm grasp of logic, your innate ability to read the minds of others, and your keen insight into how morals are derived, you and oldcajun will have plenty to talk about in the days and weeks to come.

 

[Sunstone]

If there is no god, humanity is in almost precisely the same position as if there were a god.

 

[rojse]

If there is no god, humanity is in almost precisely the same position as if there were a god.

I would have to disagree with that. Logically, it is true, but emotionally, people attach a lot of significance to the idea that God exists, and quite a lot of people's actions are tied to religious beliefs. It is a sad thing that most people would not look at such a situation logically.

Although we would be in the same position, most people would not think so, and that would be enough, would it not?

 

[Sunstone]

I would have to disagree with that. Logically, it is true, but emotionally, people attach a lot of significance to the idea that God exists, and quite a lot of people's actions are tied to religious beliefs. It is a sad thing that most people would not look at such a situation logically.

Although we would be in the same position, most people would not think so, and that would be enough, would it not?

If there were no god, people would still believe in a god or gods.

 

[Valjean]

The OP seems to assume people are naturally depraved, amoral, selfish hedonists who cannot conduct themselves properly without a coercive, authoritarian father-figure laying down the rules.
Well, people tend to judge others by their own standards. Those who need a strict father to keep them in line assume all others are as morally retarded as themselves.

 

[Dreamwolf]

2. since there is no Creator, all the rights listed in the Constitution of the USA are subject to revision of the alternate moral philosophy of man's invention.

This is a ridiculous statement seeing as how there there were similar laws against crime long before the formation of the U.S. In fact there were laws against crime in ancient societies, most of which did not share the current American view of Christianity.

3. Since there is no God, I am free to fulfill my own lust without the burden of considering the consequences to others.

Since there would be no God other people would also feel this, most likely that would lead to a vigilante system of justice. My guess is you would care when an angry parent came after you after you used and broke the heart of their children. Which would inevitably happen since you don't care about the consequences your actions would have on others.

 

[rojse]

Since there would be no God other people would also feel this, most likely that would lead to a vigilante system of justice. My guess is you would care when an angry parent came after you after you used and broke the heart of their children. Which would inevitably happen since you don't care about the consequences your actions would have on others.

Wait a moment - between the loss of God and every theist going out and fulfilling their secret desires of rape, murder, and pillaging, we have lost our law enforcement officials, lawyers, judges and jails?

 

[Dreamwolf]

Wait a moment - between the loss of God and every theist going out and fulfilling their secret desires of rape, murder, and pillaging, we have lost our law enforcement officials, lawyers, judges and jails?

Since I am in a Pre-Law program I sure hope not. What I meant was that without that sense that everyone will ultimately get judged and punished (by some higher power) then people (a select few) would feel more comfortable in taking matters into their own hands. Especially when it involves something that can not really be handled by law enforcement. Obviously I am not talking about the kinds of crime you are mentioning since those would most likely still be crimes even if there were no God, and no one who believed in God.

Sorry, I am having issues organizing my thoughts into coherent posts. I think faster than I type, therefore, I forget what I am thinking by the time I am typing it, and posts get really confusing very easily because of that.

 

[whereismynotecard]

Wait a moment - between the loss of God and every theist going out and fulfilling their secret desires of rape, murder, and pillaging, we have lost our law enforcement officials, lawyers, judges and jails?

"God" is what holds everything together... That's why I shoot everyone I see and steal anything I want.

 

[rojse]

Since I am in a Pre-Law program I sure hope not. What I meant was that without that sense that everyone will ultimately get judged and punished (by some higher power) then people (a select few) would feel more comfortable in taking matters into their own hands. Especially when it involves something that can not really be handled by law enforcement. Obviously I am not talking about the kinds of crime you are mentioning since those would most likely still be crimes even if there were no God, and no one who believed in God.

Sorry, I am having issues organizing my thoughts into coherent posts. I think faster than I type, therefore, I forget what I am thinking by the time I am typing it, and posts get really confusing very easily because of that.

I was trying to make the point that even if the concept of God was not around to make everyone behave (I honestly do not like this sort of thinking about religion, I find it an insult to those that do believe and would behave like normal people if they did not) we would still have law enforcement officials and so forth. The world would not descend to anarchy.