If there are fake galaxies, then God exists

[Eddi]

The Universe appears to be pretty huge – millions of galaxies, billions of stars, over trillions of light-years…

But what if it is not as vast as it seems?

What if it’s really only very tiny?

And what if all the distant stars, galaxies and exo-planets we can observe are all mere illusions?

What if we’re all alone, and our sun is the centre of the Universe and everything outside of our solar system doesn’t really exist in any great detail?

What if all the majesty and awesomeness of the Universe is just a very elaborate background?

I know there’s zero evidence for this...

If I could prove the Sun was at the centre of the Universe and everything outside the solar system was an illusion then would that be evidence for a creator God?

I say it would, as fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God

I think if I can prove everything outside the solar system is fake then I have proof for God

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I think if I can prove everything outside the solar system is fake then I have proof for God

Cool.

Though I admit, it would do nothing for me. It wouldn't prove or disprove God for me.

 

[Heyo]

If your scenario is indeed true, then that is proof that we live in a simulation. The programmers have just put those distant stars and galaxies there for our entertainment (or to fool us).
If you'd call a team of programmers "gods", then there is no difference between the two views. If not, your proof just went up in holy smoke.

 

[Eddi]

Cool.

Though I admit, it would do nothing for me. It wouldn't prove or disprove God for me.

Fair enough...

But if it was fake then it would have to have come into being through a creator, by definition (i.e. it didn't naturally occur) surely?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Fair enough...

But if it was fake then it would have to have come into being through a creator, by definition (i.e. it didn't naturally occur) surely?

Either that or we wouldn't have a scientific explanation for it yet.

 

[Cooky]

The Universe appears to be pretty huge – millions of galaxies, billions of stars, over trillions of light-years…

But what if it is not as vast as it seems?

What if it’s really only very tiny?

And what if all the distant stars, galaxies and exo-planets we can observe are all mere illusions?

What if we’re all alone, and our sun is the centre of the Universe and everything outside of our solar system doesn’t really exist in any great detail?

What if all the majesty and awesomeness of the Universe is just a very elaborate background?

I know there’s zero evidence for this...

If I could prove the Sun was at the centre of the Universe and everything outside the solar system was an illusion then would that be evidence for a creator God?

I say it would, as fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God

I think if I can prove everything outside the solar system is fake then I have proof for God

I don't think there's any need to do that, personally.

 

[Tumah]

I say it would, as fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God

Can you clearly explain your reasoning here?

 

[Eddi]

Can you clearly explain your reasoning here?

I hope so:

Let's consider our nearest solar system, Alpha Centauri

It can either be a real star, with real planets in orbit - or it could not truly exist as anything more than the image of a distant star, without actually being a distant star

If it were real then it could either have either occurred naturally or by the hand of God

But if it were fake then it couldn't have occurred naturally as nature could not (and would have no interest in) setting up an illusion for the benefit of Earthlings - indeed I would say it would be impossible, for a fake star that not's really there to exist

It would be an undeniably created phenomenon, as it would not have been possible for such a thing to occur naturally, i.e. without the direct influence of God - it would be a phenomenon that could only be there by there being a God

Hence I believe that fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God so that if we can prove any of them to be fake then we have proof of a creator-God as they could not have occurred without the direct influence of a creator

 

[Ouroboros]

The Universe appears to be pretty huge – millions of galaxies, billions of stars, over trillions of light-years…

But what if it is not as vast as it seems?

What if it’s really only very tiny?

And what if all the distant stars, galaxies and exo-planets we can observe are all mere illusions?

What if we’re all alone, and our sun is the centre of the Universe and everything outside of our solar system doesn’t really exist in any great detail?

What if all the majesty and awesomeness of the Universe is just a very elaborate background?

I know there’s zero evidence for this...

If I could prove the Sun was at the centre of the Universe and everything outside the solar system was an illusion then would that be evidence for a creator God?

I say it would, as fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God

I think if I can prove everything outside the solar system is fake then I have proof for God

So... that would mean God is deceptive. Let's say all that we test and know in science is wrong because God made it so we all would be fooled, then he's intentionally created a false system and it makes him/her/it a liar. Now, is that a God worthy to praise?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I hope so:

Let's consider our nearest solar system, Alpha Centauri

It can either be a real star, with real planets in orbit - or it could not truly exist as anything more than the image of a distant star, without actually being a distant star

If it were real then it could either have either occurred naturally or by the hand of God

But if it were fake then it couldn't have occurred naturally as nature could not (and would have no interest in) setting up an illusion for the benefit of Earthlings - indeed I would say it would be impossible, for a fake star that not's really there to exist

It would be an undeniably created phenomenon, as it would not have been possible for such a thing to occur naturally, i.e. without the direct influence of God - it would be a phenomenon that could only be there by there being a God

Hence I believe that fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God so that if we can prove any of them to be fake then we have proof of a creator-God as they could not have occurred without the direct influence of a creator

Eh... I disagree. I just see it as overthinking it

 

[Nakosis]

The Universe appears to be pretty huge – millions of galaxies, billions of stars, over trillions of light-years…

But what if it is not as vast as it seems?

What if it’s really only very tiny?

And what if all the distant stars, galaxies and exo-planets we can observe are all mere illusions?

What if we’re all alone, and our sun is the centre of the Universe and everything outside of our solar system doesn’t really exist in any great detail?

What if all the majesty and awesomeness of the Universe is just a very elaborate background?

I know there’s zero evidence for this...

If I could prove the Sun was at the centre of the Universe and everything outside the solar system was an illusion then would that be evidence for a creator God?

I say it would, as fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God

I think if I can prove everything outside the solar system is fake then I have proof for God

The Sun is at the center of the of the universe. You are at the center of the universe. The center of the universe has simply expanded out from itself equally in all directions. In another sense I suppose the universe has no center/center.
Where Is the Center of the Universe? | Live Science

 

[Eddi]

So... that would mean God is deceptive.

I don't think it would

Nowhere has God ever said that they are real

"God created the Heavens" = God created the thing we see when we look up at the sky - nothing more

The idea that stars are suns is something humans have figured out for themselves without any input from God - humans could be wrong and just assuming they are correct

 

[SigurdReginson]

It seems incredibly unlikely. We already have real world explanations that make sense from studies done on the stars since the bronze age. It'd be like blaming the fact that my dishes get done before I get home from work on house elves rather than the fact that my room mate is home and did them.

Hell, if god just made everything outside of our galaxy a projection, what's to say that the reality we experience isn't just a simulation and that we are all plugged into some kind of machine just like the Matrix? There's really no justification to jump to those conclusions, because even if they are true, they are still the reality we experience. If god wants to trick us with gimicks, just how powerful is (s)he?

 

[ChristineM]

The Universe appears to be pretty huge – millions of galaxies, billions of stars, over trillions of light-years…

But what if it is not as vast as it seems?

What if it’s really only very tiny?

And what if all the distant stars, galaxies and exo-planets we can observe are all mere illusions?

What if we’re all alone, and our sun is the centre of the Universe and everything outside of our solar system doesn’t really exist in any great detail?

What if all the majesty and awesomeness of the Universe is just a very elaborate background?

I know there’s zero evidence for this...

If I could prove the Sun was at the centre of the Universe and everything outside the solar system was an illusion then would that be evidence for a creator God?

I say it would, as fake galaxies and stars could only have come into being by the hand of God

I think if I can prove everything outside the solar system is fake then I have proof for God

lots of what ifs there and no evidence.

The Voyager craft have left our solar system, no illusion.

If only our solar system existed, how would that be proof of god?

And of course, if you could prove your version of god (the abrahamic god) exists you would destroy the faith of 4 billion people

 

[ChristineM]

Fair enough...

But if it was fake then it would have to have come into being through a creator, by definition (i.e. it didn't naturally occur) surely?

How do you figure that? Before you can say a creator did it, it is advisable to prove a creator exists to do it. The cart before the horse never works

 

[Eddi]

If only our solar system existed, how would that be proof of god?

Because that would mean the other solar systems etc. were existing only as an illusion

And such illusions would not happen naturally - hence they could only be made by God

Unless someone can prove that nature would and/or could create fake galaxies etc...

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Because that would mean the other solar systems etc. were existing only as an illusion

And such illusions would not happen naturally - hence they could only be made by God

Unless someone can prove that nature would and/or could create fake galaxies etc...

"Fake" is a construct, a human perception. That's the problem.

 

[Quintessence]

There are two basic ways we can think about size. First, we can think about size as an objective, quantitative measurement of something. In this case, the question about whether or not the universe is "as vast as it seems" is irrelevant. We have the measurements. They are what they are. Second, we can think about size as a subjective, qualitative experience of something. Here, vastness is entirely a matter of perspective and there is no reason to suppose the human perspective has any sort of special standing.

In any case, somehow demonstrating that Sun is the center of the universe and the rest is an illusion does not provide logical proof for a deity without clearly establishing what a deity is. There are some bits in the argument missing there that need to be filled in. Besides, fussing about proofs for the gods is missing the point. Something is a god because we declare it to be so and the characteristics of the gods are grounded in what it is we choose to deify. We deify things to express a particular sort of regard or relationship we have with something. It's like an honorific title. You don't "prove" titles - you decide what the title means as a construct and apply it as relevant based on that construct.

 

[Eddi]

How do you figure that? Before you can say a creator did it, it is advisable to prove a creator exists to do it. The cart before the horse never works

How and why would/could nature alone produce fake galaxies that only exist as distant lights but which look like star-systems?

Such a category of thing could not occur naturally

If someone showed me such a thing I would take it as evidence for some kind of intelligent design

 

[ChristineM]

Because that would mean the other solar systems etc. were existing only as an illusion

And such illusions would not happen naturally - hence they could only be made by God

Unless someone can prove that nature would and/or could create fake galaxies etc...

Ever looked in a pool of water? No god needed to show the illusion of your local environment apparently hanging upsidedown in the pool.