1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Twilight Hue, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    Wow, two strawmen, and a foul ball. Persia is represented by Iran, whose head is on the chopping block (Daniel 2:35). And here I thought you claimed to be "Christian", and claimed to have lived in and apparently fight for the KSA. The Ethiopian king fought the Jewish king before the birth of Mohammad.
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    That's correct.. but the Ethiopian king sheltered the first 70 Muslims who fled during the first Hijra.. so they were friends.. Muhammed took over the protection of the Christians of Najran 100 years later..

    Daniel wasn't alive during the Babylonia exile and never knew King Nebuchadnezzar. He wasn't born for another 300 years.
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    I think the ISIS caliphate was taxing the Syrians and Iraqis fairly high rates.

    https://www.nytimes.com/.../isis-syria-caliphate.html?pgtype=Homepage
    Mar 23, 2019 · ISIS Caliphate Crumbles as Last Village in Syria Falls ... By taxing the millions under the group’s rule and exploiting the area ... Even as the territory it holds in Iraq and Syria has dwindled .
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    They were robbing banks, refining oil in bootleg refineries and selling it to Turkey, Israel and Assad, kidnapping people for ransom, collecting transit fees.. and trafficking drugs.
     
  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    And yet he knew the crushing of Greece by Rome before it even happened, and prophesized the crushing of an alliance between Rome and Islam 2300 years before it happened in 1918 and again in 1967, according to your scenario. Do you hold Daniel's live birth certificate, or an actual birth certificate? In the U.S. we have had problems with acquiring actual birth certificates.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    At the group's height, 7.7 million people were estimated to live under ISIS rule, according to Operation Inherent Resolve (CJTF-OIR), the official name for the coalition fighting ISIS. Many of those people paid taxes, fees and fines to ISIS, which made up a large portion of the group's income. From leftist CNN writer taken from ABC report

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/isis...
    The ISIS Economy: Crushing Taxes and High Unemployment. ... and has imposed heavy taxes on civilians
     
  7. THE HOOD APOLOGIST

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2019
    Messages:
    127
    Ratings:
    +39
    Religion:
    Christian
    There was no discovery of the Bible. Bible is from biblio which means book. There are 66 individual books. There has always been manuscripts in circulation in the Church since they were written. They just happened to be put together as one book which we call the Bible.

    Dead Sea scrolls are just copies of manuscripts already written. The Catholic Church found so called manuscripts which are the oldest found but don't even contain all the books of the Bible we have now. They also omit a lot of content due to the beliefs of Westcott and Hort. In ending the books have always been is circulation, consequently someone just discovered them all put together in one book.
     
    #307 THE HOOD APOLOGIST, Mar 23, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  8. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    9,860
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    1) Why do you say "my buildings"? I trust Yeshua for the change in heart, as promised in Jeremiah and elsewhere.

    2) I understand the gospel is trusting Yeshua. I'm not sure what you're inviting me to do to "trust what Yeshua" says. Even if I reject the NT except for the four gospels, what do you think men must do or believe to be saved?
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    In Muslim Spain Muslim and Jewish scholars sat side by side copying EVERYTHING from medical texts from ancient Greece, Torah scrolls to goodness knows what. They were committed to preserving the wisdom of the ages. Isn't that interesting?

    Expelling them from Spain was a HUGE loss to humanity.
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    The change in heart per Jeremiah 31:31-33 is with respect to the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah". It comes about with the gathering out of the "house of Israel" from the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24), which has not happened. We have yet to experience the "day of distress" per Jeremiah 16:19, a day when the nations/Gentiles will confess "our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood". You and the demons can believe what ever you want (James 2:19), but it takes more than mere belief. Believing in the false gospel of grace/cross, is a bad start.
     
  11. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    9,860
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    I understand of your doctrine only this, as you wrote above: "It takes more than mere belief." Did you want to tell me what it takes, so I can flee the coming judgment?
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    Well, let us see. First to "enter into life", you must keep the Commandments (Matthew 19:17). As for entering into the "kingdom of heaven", you must be more righteous than the Pharisees (Matthew 5:20-48). Which is to say, you must be "perfect" (Matthew 5:48). To avoid having to drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10), you will have to "escape" from the "daughter of Babylon"/Gentile church (Zechariah 2:7), or in the words of Revelation 18:4, "come out of her".

    New American Standard 1977 Matthew 5:48
    “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    In Jeremiah God does not want His people to dwell with the "DAUGHTER of Babylon"
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    “Daughter of Zion,” is a metaphor for Israel.
     
  15. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    9,860
    Ratings:
    +776
    Religion:
    Messianic Jewish Christianity
    I sincerely want to understand:

    By commandments/Matthew 19, you want me to keep the 613 laws of the Torah? I see the young man and Jesus speaking about several of those in that passage.

    I need to be perfect, that is, I can no longer sin after trusting Jesus?

    I'm Jewish, I'm not "in" the Gentile church, so I have that part, I think.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,396
    Religion:
    Christian
    The daughter of Babylon is Israel. Its a scolding for falling away and chasing false gods.
     
  17. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,743
    Ratings:
    +572
    Religion:
    Writer of the Mune Shinri (Aiken religion)
    You don't understand. People had the Bible in some form since about 60 A.D. What they found were scrolls in a jar, some of which we missing link connections to put it to evolution parlance. They were stuff like the Gospel of Thomas.

    The Bible didn't arise then, because tgere was a Latin and a German Bible.

    This would be like if you expected in 20 years for people to suppress Air Supply songs, so you made a time capsule, and centuries later Air Supply managed to survive but some of the lyrics had gotten garbled. "Ohhh they said 'out of nothing at all' not 'muffin and all.'"
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    Yeshua listed the Commandments for the young man, which are for every person, whether of Jacob, or a Gentile (Ecclesiastes 12:13-14). "Because God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil".
     
  19. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,691
    Ratings:
    +184
    The "house of Israel" is a daughter of Babylon, for she is among the other daughters of Babylon, the Gentile churches, because she is "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:17-19). Zechariah 2:7 is directed at Zion, which is the mountain of God, which is comprised of those who keep God's Commandments. (Isaiah 56:6). They need to do more than keep My covenant, they need to separate themselves from those with the mark of the beast. Those with the mark of the beast must drink from the cup of the wrath of God (Revelation 14:10).
     
  20. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    31,001
    Ratings:
    +12,360
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    That would effectively make the Latin and German Bible the 'true' original manuscripts.
     
Loading...