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Featured If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Paul, before his conversion was a Jew, a Pharisee and a citizen of Rome.. He was NOT a Gentile. …. FACT.

    Israel is the Whore of Babylon (harlot) because she went a whoring after other gods.. The Bible says so over, and over and over again.. FACT

    "Futurism" was the work of a Jesuit Priest named Ribera in reaction to the teachings of Martin Luther that Rome was the Whore of Babylon and the Pope was the Anti-Christ (late 1500s)
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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  3. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    If one "TRUSTS" in their teacher, they will do what their teacher teaches, and that listing of items to do or not to do from Jesus is found in the Sermon. And this is where the "Goats" in Matthew 25 failed, namely that they believed in some things about Jesus but not enough in Jesus so as to do what Jesus taught.
     
  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    A citizen of Rome, is a citizen of the nations, and therefore a Gentile (of the nations). Being of the Herodian family, most likely related to Esau/Edom/Idumea . It is hard to say if Paul had a Benjamin maiden in his wood pile, other than his self witness, which according to John 5:31, would make it untrue.
    https://taylormarshall.com/2015/08/was-saint-paul-related-to-herod-7-reasons-paul-was-herodian.html

    New American Standard Bible 1 Cor 9:21
    to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
     
  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that, you had better start keeping them, for the law will go out from Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:3), and not from Paul's Rome, and his harlot daughter church of Babylon. On the other hand, there is no number "613" listed in the Torah, that would be listed by the scribes.

    No one worships on God's mountain/Zion without keeping the covenant, and keeping the Sabbath (Isaiah 65:6-7). If you believe your 613 scribe list, go for it. Yeshua's message was to keep the Commandments to "enter into life". He listed the 10 commandments related to loving your neighbor.

    Isaiah 2:3 Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    Isaiah 56: 6“Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD,
    To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD,
    To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
    And holds fast My covenant;

    7Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
    And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
    Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
    For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”
     
    #205 2ndpillar, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  6. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Paul was a Jew from Turkey.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    According to Paul, and apparently the unknown scribe of stories of unspecified sources, supposedly Luke, who supposedly wrote Acts, and who was supposedly an associate of Paul, he was from Taurus, a part of Rome. According to Paul, Paul was a Pharisee. Turkey, nor Islam, were established at that time. According to Paul, the law is nailed to the cross, and "we are released from the Law". According to Paul, we will not rest/die, but be changed from perishable to imperishable, yet Paul was changed from perishable to perished. According to Paul, his followers are "saved", according to Yeshua, not so much. The "many" follow Paul, but according to Yeshua, the "many" are headed to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13) & (Zechariah 11:9).

    Zechariah 11:9 9and said, "I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another's flesh."
     
    #207 2ndpillar, Mar 19, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  8. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Tarsus was in Turkey.. You do know that there were lots of Jews living in Rome, Persia, Egypt, Damascus and Aleppo by the time Christ was born, don't you?

    Paul died before the Destruction of the Temple and before the Christ followers avoided the tribulation by fleeing to Pella.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The Seljuk Turks began migrating into the area in the 11th century, and their victory over the Byzantines at the Battle of Manzikert in 1071 symbolizes the start and foundation of Turkey
    Turkey - Wikipedia


    [​IMG]
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Zechariah 11:9 has to do with the "flock doomed to slaughter" of Zechariah 11:7, which was with respect to 3 shepherds, Peter, Paul, and Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:8). The 3rd shepherd, Judas, was identified in Matthew 27:9-10, by the quoting of Zechariah 11:12-13 with respect to Judas. Those that are to "escape" are those on Mount Zion, and in Jerusalem (Joel 2:31-32), not those in Rome, and are not the followers of Paul, who was thrown out of Jerusalem, but would be Judah (Joel 3:1), per the "awesome day of the LORD", which day has not come, and which involves all the nations of the world (Revelation 16:13-16) & (Joel 3:2).
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Joel 3:1 is talking about the 686 BC event.
     
  12. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    What does any of what you wrote have to do with the Bible heresy of saying "only the four gospels are valid in the NT"?
     
  13. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    Huh? What?

    I'm a Jewish Christian--I'm not Roman Catholic, and not a Protestant, because I'm not protesting anything.

    Rome has a lot of bad doctrine--almost all their doctrine is horrible, but the chief issue is the gospel IMHO. As I understand the gospel from the gospels themselves, simple trust in Christ IS salvation (John 3:16, John 1:12, etc.).
     
  14. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I'm making an unverifiable claim that trusting Jesus is salvation?
     
  15. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense! However, Jesus was teaching in the case of the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere that no one fully does all of His teachings except Him--making Him the cross candidate.

    Jesus taught one must be perfect, not good, to get to Heaven, Jesus died for our sin IMHO, not in spite of our sin, etc.

    John 3 says, "Whoever trusts Jesus IS saved," and not the Roman "Whoever proves they trust Jesus by doing things [even though an omniscient God would know who trusts Him despite their sometimes failed actions]!"

    John 1 goes further, "Whoever trusted in HIS NAME, to THEM He gave the right to be called children of God."

    Our understanding of salvation colors all our doctrine and life. Based on what you're saying, anyone can be saved based on works, but biblically, anyone can be saved based on trusting God. How do you account for Romans 4 in your understanding, the beginning of Romans 4?

    Thanks.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Oh Mercy.. Tarsus was in Anatolia.. Before the birth of Christ there were Jewish communities in Alexandria, Aleppo, Damascus, Persia, Anatolia, Rome, Elephantine Island and all around the Mediterranean. Palestine could NOT support a large population.

    There were Jews who were Roman citizens... That didn't make them Gentiles.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member
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    Take it up with whomever said it. I didn't.
     
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Since you refuse to even attempt to answer my question, why should I respond to anything you post?
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I did not say that nor imply that. It's based on belief and doing God's "works".
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There were many people living under Roman rule, but few, such as supposedly Paul, because he was supposedly Herodian, and was a citizen by way of the Idumea Herod, a fake Jew, not of the tribe of Judah, nor Benjamin, being an appointed ruler of a Roman province. The term Jew, refers to the "house of Judah". There is no pathway to being of the "house of Judah" in the Torah, except to being a descendant of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. As for strangers living among the Jews, there is one law for the foreigner and the Jew (Leviticus 24:22). That does not make the "foreigner" a Jew. To be in the covenant with Abraham, the father of nations/Gentiles, one must be circumcised. That does not make one a Jew, for all of Abraham's household, including servants, were circumcised, and all did not go on to produce Judah/Jews. Paul wasn't Jewish in deed, and apparently not in heritage. Apparently, he had become Gentile in deed. His probable heritage, being Herodian, of Idumea/Edom, was one of being of the nations, a Gentile.

    Leviticus 24:22 22You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'"
     
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