1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured If the Abrahamic faiths are culturally designated, where do I fit in?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Epic Beard Man, May 21, 2019.

  1. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,687
    Ratings:
    +3,559
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    And by "I," I mean those who are inquiring about a particular religion among the Abrahamic umbrella. Realizing that all three faiths including their sub sects all relate to the origin of the people in a particular region of the world, where do I the observer belong considering the doctrinal traditions tends to favor the people of those regions? Some Judeo-Christian traditions say the cradle of civilization began in Ur (although scholars have differing criteria for what they determine to be a civilization). Some say the language of "heaven" is Arabic (some even said Hebrew), more importantly all things are related to the people that existed in that time in those specific regions. With that being said, how does a skeptic approach a supposed universal faith if the faith itself is culturally unrelatable to the individual him/herself?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  2. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    12,669
    Ratings:
    +13,982
    Religion:
    בת נח
    As I've already told you, I always see you as loosely a Hanif kind. Outside the formality of religion, but not negating it.

    But this is your path, and who is anyone to tell you where to tread?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    From a Christian perspective. Studying the prophecies about the Messiah you'll find that He is Savior to all the nations; not just Hebrews.
     
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,222
    Ratings:
    +1,686
    Religion:
    diversity
    My vote: We all come from the same source. All of creation is one big family. That's what I take away from the Abrahamic faiths. The rest is commentary :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,138
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Religion:
    Christian
    The reason why Judaism and by extension, Christianity began where it did was because that area was the crossroads of civilization.

    Major trade routes from virtually all civilizations, except perhaps north and south America transversed this area, and thus, people from these civilizations.

    The Jews in their little country were placed where they were for the purpose of using this advantage to spread the knowledge of God.

    They turned inward, and failed. The Christians did not.

    Christianity has been part of the American culture from the beginning.

    Though its tenets were abused by those who said they adhered to them, Christianity is inculcated into the American culture
     
  6. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,687
    Ratings:
    +3,559
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    You do not get it....Re-read
     
  7. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,687
    Ratings:
    +3,559
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    That's not the point. When we are discussing their origins and the people who are relevant to these stories, who God is referred as, they are not relevant to the people of let's say Ōkunoshima Island. How does Jesus a Jewish guy or Muhammad an Arab guy relate to someone who is on some distant Island? Reciting prayers in Judaism, some Christian sects and Islam are done in different languages, languages that don't relate to the people of Ōkunoshima Island languages relating to the people of a different culture. Sure we can talk about the stories of self-sacrifice and devotion, but these are utilitarian examples, but when discussing prayers, customs, who Goid is referred as most certainly the "True name" of God is in a different language and of a different culture than the people of Ōkunoshima Island. With that being said how can these people fit in these traditions?
     
  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,687
    Ratings:
    +3,559
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    So how can the people of Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapihimaungahoronukupo culturally relate to Christianity as expressed in American culture when the people of Tetaumatawhakatangihangakoauaotamateaurehaeaturipukapihimaungahoronukupo speak an entirely different language, have an entirely different culture, and perhaps an entirely different outlook on the world?
     
  9. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    7,687
    Ratings:
    +3,559
    Religion:
    Agnostic-Monotheist
    Well this isn't me necessarily and yes I remember that. I'm merely addressing this from the perspective fo someone who is curious about the Abrahamic faiths but isn't so sure where they fit. Let's say a boy from a different ethnic tradition but is American and has western values but is unsure of their spiritual convictions because these traditions do not relate to him/her.
     
  10. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    12,669
    Ratings:
    +13,982
    Religion:
    בת נח
    Well, certainly in my path I find it is more open to one's deeper spirituality than reciting prayers, possibly in a language one doesn't speak. First I would ask this person to ponder why these traditions don't relate or speak to him and then reflect upon what does relate to and speak to him. If he best connects to G-d through, say, nature, then what's to stop him from taking that path? As long as, in my view, one is not committing idolatry then whatever means one connects to G-d one can use. As this is a very personal dilemma, I do not want to say a lot as I do not want to play director or tyrant and speak about things I don't understand, and leave this really to you.
     
  11. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    7,138
    Ratings:
    +1,394
    Religion:
    Christian
    Your folk of this fine country can understand, when presented in their own language the very simple tenants of Christianity.

    If their culture finds it good to crack open your fathers head, eat his brain, then use his skull as an ashtray, then there is a lot of patient work ahead.

    I could go to villages in South east Asia or Africa, and if they are Christian villages, the bond of our mutual faith would overcome the cultural differences between us.
     
  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,737
    Ratings:
    +5,238
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    There is a fourth the Baha'i Faith. I do not believe the Baha'i Faith is culturally designated.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    8,544
    Ratings:
    +6,577
    Religion:
    Christian
    Is this really a place?
     
  14. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    7,533
    Ratings:
    +2,810
    I would say a true skeptic is skeptical of themselves as well. Since you asked the question you aren't a skeptic mearly a version of what you are skeptical about. Abrahamic religions tend towards the intellect determining nature, not unlike Western culture science. One might start with "what the hell is the intellect anyway. ". Till that's clear it just makes one A believer in atheist clothing is all.
     
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    7,772
    Ratings:
    +3,101
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I see we belong as a supporter of all God given Faiths, as all had the potential to be and could have been, world embracing. We can choose to see we are all world citizens.

    Nature and nurture can and has build predudices, but in reality we all live on one planet and all can work together towards the good of the entire human family. A unity in our diversity.

    That is now a choice we have been given.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    29,026
    Ratings:
    +12,298
    Religion:
    Catholic-- liberal & ecumenical
    It's sorta like "If you have one clock, you know what time it is; but if you have many clocks, you can't be sure what time it is". IOW, we're in an area (theology) whereas certainty cannot be had for any person who at least tries to think objectively.

    As for myself, I read all scriptures as allegory, try and learn what they teach that might be applicable, and then use my limited judgment to decide which I'll follow. It's an imprecise art, but it's the best I can do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,202
    Ratings:
    +6,153
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    We all need to distinguish between the universal and culturally specific teachings of both our own cultures and the faiths we investigate. When a community is unable to distinguish between these two fundamental types of teachings and insists the traditions that belong to a bygone era are universal, then renewal is necessary. An prophet or enlightened soul may be essential to the process of positive transformation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,222
    Ratings:
    +1,686
    Religion:
    diversity
    That's the nature of traditions. They are regional. I think it's ( forgive me ) counter-productive to focus on these too much if the result is that it makes you feel like an outsider. And that's the challenge ( maybe it's a flaw, maybe not ) in the Abrahamic beliefs. Christianity seems to do the best at encouraging humility and unity. Judaism and Islam tie for second in my opinion. But all 3 seem to have elements of elitism that its members need to actively offset. Part of that tendency towards elitism is included in ritual. My ritual is correct; yours is incorrect. My language is holier than yours, etc...

    And that's why I ask you, why is the ritual so important?

    From my research, all three of the major branches of Abrahamic belief prioritize commitment to God as the source. If the ritual a person performs brings them further from this idea, then that, IMHO, is a problem.

    And, forgive me, it sounds like this is what you are speaking about in your OP? How does a non-Arabic speaker relate to Islamic traditions, and ritual? Am I still missing the point? :oops::confused::rolleyes:

    That's all theoretical. Here's something practical. If for example a person wants to connect with a religion that executes foreign ritual and speaks an unfamiliar language: I think the first step is learning. Then later, if it's constructive, perform the ritual. But if the ritual is not constructive, I vote: ignore it. focus on learning, focus on the intellectual. Keep it simple, be a good person. Let the religious practice happen organically, if it's going to happen. And if it doesn't happen, it wasn't meant to be.

    Does that help answer your question?
     
  19. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,222
    Ratings:
    +1,686
    Religion:
    diversity
    Goal! Touchdown Tony! :) :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member
    It's My Birthday!

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    2,965
    Ratings:
    +728
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    They don't need to adapt to American culture. The point of Christianity as I said; it's for everyone. It has nothing to do with American culture. In fact many aspects of American culture are not good by Christian standards. As for their outlook on the world. That's kind of the point of the gospel. To correct people's errors so they know the truth as God would have us understand.

    But the gospel's mission is not to just go around erasing cultures and replacing them. Just fixing them.
     
Loading...