Desert Snake
Veteran Member
If shiva is everything, in shaivite claim, is it Lucifer, etc
Last edited:
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
If shaivaite think shiva is everything, is it Lucifer, etc?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
shaivite claim that shiva is everything?
Last edited:
Dear god, you've cracked the code!
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I think Lucifer is a Christian concept, so he is part of their God.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I would assume that even very generous Hindus would have to admit that some conceptions of Lucifer are a part of delusional attachment, which I believe to be traditionally described as part of Maya the illusion (which is sometimes personified as Maya the Devi).
Of course, that is not a privilege of the concept of Lucifer; misconceptions in general would "belong to" Maya.
Likewise, not all conceptions of Lucifer are necessarily delusional or misguided. Some of the more constructive ones would perhaps be perceived as aspects of Lord Yama. And sure, for many (not necessarily all) Shivaites Yama and even Maya would ultimately be in some sense manifestations of Shiva.
What all that actually means will of course depend quite a lot on the individual person's inclinations. For some it will be entirely symbolic with no literal truth. For others it might be literal, yet there would still likely be an awareness that olthers nonetheless hold different views on these highly personal matters.
For meaningful conversations on such matters to be possible, considerable effort would have to be put into giving the interlocutors appropriate context to enable effective mutual understanding.
That is probably a main reason why it is so important for Hindus to connect with a qualified Guru and develop a good rapport with him or her.
It's more accurate to say Lucifer is Shiva than to say Shiva is Lucifer. Because all things are, in their true nature, Shiva. Grass is Shiva, people are Shiva, stars are Shiva, every form which arises within the infinite silence of his being is Shiva Himself. Any form that's experienced is as real as any other, so there's really no ultimate difference between someone experiencing Lucifer and me experiencing this computer.
There is no Lucifer concept in Saivism, so the question makes no sense. It's like saying, 'I sure enjoyed the cinnamon in this dessert,' when there was no cinnamon in the dessert.
So it's once again the projection of one paradigm into another. Still, in Saivism, Siva is All, and All is Siva, but if something doesn't exist in the All, it's also not Siva.
So it's once again the projection of one paradigm into another. Still, in Saivism, Siva is All, and All is Siva, but if something doesn't exist in the All, it's also not Siva.
Lucifer is a very Abrahamic concept. But sure, if Lucifer exists then he would be Shiva.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
What do you mean, 'the question makes no sense''. It's an extremely simple question. Your analogy is goofed as well. the other part seems like a non-answer
He's saying that as Shaivas don't believe in Lucifer, it doesn't make sense to ask whether Lucifer is Shiva.
It's like me asking a Jew 'when will Jesus return?', when Jews don't believe Jesus will return.
It made no sense to me, and I tried to explain why by using a couple of analogies.
It is very difficult to explain things across paradigms. You think Lucifer exists. I don't. From that, we're not on the same page, and most likely never will be. I'm a Saivite Hindu, and we accept diversity of opinions, so it's fine with me if you believe in Lucifer.
But mystics don't argue, so I will be out.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
No, it isn't like that at all. I did not presume that Lucifer is Shiva, in my question; as you presumed Jews would expect the return of Jesus, in your analogy.
Kirran explained my position well. Perhaps you did presume Lucifer exists?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
That doesn't change the nature of the question,
Last edited:
It is very similar.
How can a Shaiva say Lucifer is or is not Shiva, when they don't believe in Lucifer?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Then the answer would be ''no, because I don't think Lucifer is real,'' or something.
The question is not obscure
As you wish.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
But you don't think that Lucifer is real....