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Featured If Science were a woman, would it be smart one?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by questfortruth, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You must not have read Isaiah 53
     
  2. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    47 Old Testament Verses About Jesus as Messiah
    Prophecies of Jesus Old Testament
    Scripture New Testament
    Fulfillment
    1 Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
    Galatians 4:4
    2 Messiah would be born in
    Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
    Luke 2:4-6
    3 Messiah would be
    born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23
    Luke 1:26-31
    4 Messiah would come from the line of
    Abraham. Genesis 12:3
    Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1
    Romans 9:5
    5 Messiah would be a descendant of
    Isaac. Genesis 17:19
    Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34
    6 Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Numbers 24:17 Matthew 1:2
    7 Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:33
    Hebrews 7:14
    8 Messiah would be heir to
    King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13
    Isaiah 9:7 Luke 1:32-33
    Romans 1:3
    9 Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7
    Daniel 2:44 Luke 1:33
    Hebrews 1:8-12
    10 Messiah would be called
    Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
    11 Messiah would spend a season inEgypt. Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:14-15
    12 A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace. Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16-18
    13 A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah. Isaiah 40:3-5 Luke 3:3-6
    14 Messiah would be preceded by a forerunner. Malachi 3:1 Matthew 11:10
    15 Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8
    Isaiah 53:3 John 1:11
    John 7:5
    16 Messiah would be a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:15 Acts 3:20-22
    17 Messiah would be preceded by
    Elijah. Malachi 4:5-6 Matthew 11:13-14
    18 Messiah would be declared the
    Son of God. Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:16-17
    19 Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Isaiah 11:1 Matthew 2:23
    20 Messiah would bring light to
    Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:13-16
    21 Messiah would speak in
    parables. Psalm 78:2-4
    Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:10-15, 34-35
    22 Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted. Isaiah 61:1-2 Luke 4:18-19
    23 Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6
    24 Messiah would be called King. Psalm 2:6
    Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 27:37
    Mark 11:7-11
    25 Messiah would enter Jerusalem on a donkey. Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 21:4-5
    26 Messiah would be praised by little children. Psalm 8:2 Matthew 21:16
    27 Messiah would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9
    Zechariah 11:12-13 Luke 22:47-48
    Matthew 26:14-16
    28 Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13 Matthew 27:9-10
    29 Messiah would be falsely accused. Psalm 35:11 Mark 14:57-58
    30 Messiah would be silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7 Mark 15:4-5
    31 Messiah would be spat upon and struck. Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67
    32 Messiah would be hated without cause. Psalm 35:19
    Psalm 69:4 John 15:24-25
    33 Messiah would be
    crucified with criminals. Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38
    Mark 15:27-28
    34 Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34
    John 19:28-30
    35 Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. Psalm 22:16
    Zechariah 12:10 John 20:25-27
    36 Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed. Psalm 22:7-8 Luke 23:35
    37 Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments. Psalm 22:18 Luke 23:34
    Matthew 27:35-36
    38 Messiah's bones would not be broken. Exodus 12:46
    Psalm 34:20 John 19:33-36
    39 Messiah would be forsaken by God. Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
    40 Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34
    41 Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side. Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34
    42 Messiah would be buried with the rich. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-60
    43 Messiah would
    resurrect from the dead. Psalm 16:10
    Psalm 49:15 Matthew 28:2-7
    Acts 2:22-32
    44 Messiah would
    ascend to heaven. Psalm 24:7-10 Mark 16:19
    Luke 24:51
    45 Messiah would be seated at God's right hand. Psalm 68:18
    Psalm 110:1 Mark 16:19
    Matthew 22:44
    46 Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8
    47 Messiah would return a second time. Daniel 7:13-14 Revelation 19
     
  3. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Indeed I have. It's about the Suffering Servant, the nation of Israel. That Christians centuries later want to turn it into their own fable is their problem, not the Tanakh's.
    For that you'd need a real messiah, one who was a leader and liberator of the Jews and anointed by the Jewish priesthood.

    Since (given an historical Jesus) that was never true of Jesus, that's one more reason why none of your quotes from the Tanakh are about Jesus.

    Nor have you taken into account the manifest fictions ─ those examples were from Matthew ─ that I pointed out to you,
     
  4. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    ““You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭5:33-37, 39-40‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  5. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I could write "I always tell the truth" in any of my posts. Why would that not be as convincing as your quote?

    And why do you never address the actual points I raise? Do you not understand them? Can I make them clearer for you?

    Are you only interested in saying and not in listening?
     
  6. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    I did address your points, funny that you missed the point of the passage and replied with that.

    You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  7. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    This is the anointing Jesus received:
    “When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.””
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  8. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Really? For example, where did you address the fictions in Matthew that I set out for you? When we've got those sorted, we can look at the identity of the Suffering Servant ─ and so on.
     
  9. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Nope. Christians may like to think they're all anointed by baptism (though I've never heard of it) but Jesus (a) was never a civil, military or religious leader of the Jews (b) never anointed by the priesthood (c) never the salvation of the Jews ─ instead the source of two thousand years of often murderous antisemitism.

    As for God's words, as you know they're taken from Psalm 2:7, where God adopted David as [his] son. Do you think Jesus is the son of God in the same sense that David was the son of God?
     
  10. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    Believers are anointed by God by receiving the Holy Spirit. Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
    “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.”
    ‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

    You’re mistaken, As far as God is concerned the
    Levitical Priesthood and the Temple Sacrifices are over and obsolete. Jesus Christ is the once and for all sacrifice for sins.
     
  11. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    If you read Isaiah 53 and believe that is about the nation of Israel and not Jesus Christ, there isn’t much point in talking. It’s clear, same with the other Old Testament prophecies Jesus fulfilled.
     
  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    What, so every Christian is the messiah? Jesus is just one of the herd?
     
  13. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    David adopted son as am I. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, The Son of God:
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4, 14‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  14. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    It may be clear to you as a matter of faith and belief but it's equally clear to me as a matter of the text in the context of history that the Suffering Servant is NOT Jesus and IS the nation of Israel.

    And that Jesus is mentioned exactly nowhere in the Tanakh, and simply doesn't come even close to conforming to the Jewish concept of a messiah.

    If the Christians want "messiah" to have an entirely different meaning, fine, but don't try to retrofit that entirely different meaning onto the Tanakh. If you want to know what the Tanakh means, ask your Jewish friends.
     
  15. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    You keep saying these things when I already showed you that your view isn’t supported by Scripture.
     
  16. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    There are three basis Christologies in the NT. The first is Paul's gnostic Jesus who was created by God and lived in heaven with God, and who in the role of the gnostic demiurge ('craftsman') created the material universe. This is also the Jesus of the author of John.

    Then there's Mark's Jesus, who grows up in a perfectly ordinary Jewish family until at his baptism the heavens open and God adopts him as [his] son in the same way that God adopted David as his son. (This is emphasized in Acts 13:33.)

    The third kind of Jesus are those of Matthew and of Luke, which are each the result of the divine insemination of a virgin, and thus, unlike the others, have God's own Y-chromosome,

    Which reminds me, you STILL haven't addressed those fictions in Matthew.
     
  17. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I have quoted you scripture all along. And I also take history into account ─ as those fictions in Matthew show. Are you going to address them? You don't have to, of course. If you don't know the answers, just say, "I don't know."
     
  18. ElishaElijah

    ElishaElijah Return

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    @blü 2
    Will leave you with this:
    “He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.”
    ‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:25-27‬ ‭NIV‬‬
     
  19. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    You've done nothing of the kind. Let's get Matthew out of the way, and then we can move on.
     
  20. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    So you're bailing out?

    Go well.
     
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