1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured If Science Can't Answer it...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Aug 2, 2022.

  1. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    6,424
    Ratings:
    +4,464
    Religion:
    None
    Or in other words "I imagine stuff".

    When you say "psychic senses", do you men "my imagination ?

    If they cannot be objectively and repeatedly detected and tested, how do you know they exist at all outside of your imagination

    Whuh? So your approved sources of objective, rational info is based on confirmation bias?
    Why am i not surprised?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    6,424
    Ratings:
    +4,464
    Religion:
    None
    So if me and my mate do some acid and we both see the carpet turn to water - that is "evidence " that the carpet actually did turn to water?
    :tearsofjoy:
    **mod edit**
     
    #82 KWED, Aug 3, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2022
  3. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    It means I find it overwhelmingly convincing.
    Whatever words you want to use I consider everything in my 'all things considered' position. And that would include my judgment of the quality of your anecdote regarding my mother.
    It's Wikipedia and not me. But for our general edification the dictionary definition is:

    e·pis·te·mo·log·i·cal
    [iˌpistəməˈläjəkəl]
    ADJECTIVE
    philosophy

    1. relating to the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope, and the distinction between justified belief and opinion:
      "what epistemological foundation is there for such an artificial discrimination?"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. KWED

    KWED Scratching head, scratching knee

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2021
    Messages:
    6,424
    Ratings:
    +4,464
    Religion:
    None
    Oh, hilaious!
    Here you are just hair-splitting about words like "reality' and 'imagination".

    So you therefore equally consider all the testimony of people who have never seen ghosts, don't believe in ghosts, have tried to contact ghosts and failed, and who have conducted experiments that have failed to show any sign of ghosts?
    Whats that?
    You reject all that because they are close-minded and not open to accepting the reality of ghosts?
    Quelle surprise!
    :tearsofjoy:
     
  5. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Neither, but rather extrasensory perception.
    By thorough consideration of all the relevant information.
    I call it best reasoning, all things considered.
     
  6. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    No. One considers the quality of the claim too all things considered.
     
    #86 George-ananda, Aug 3, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2022
  7. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Sorry to disturb your point, but I consider all the above in my 'all things considered' evaluation.
     
  8. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2022
    Messages:
    3,648
    Ratings:
    +2,711
    Religion:
    none
    The word scientism has degenerated to a mere epithet. Simple name calling. You are trying to deride me for being skeptical of people who merely insist that I accept them on their word with a category that is demonstrably rife with egos, fraud and predatory practices. You are propping your claims on negging me.

    Try dealing with my actual words rather than facile demogoguery.
     
  9. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    The word 'Scientism' should not be looked at as necessarily good or bad. One can be proud of following Scientism. It is just a philosophy I do not personally follow and argue against.

    If you follow it, defend it!
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2022
    Messages:
    3,648
    Ratings:
    +2,711
    Religion:
    none
    Again you address an epithet (good or ill) and not what was said.
     
  11. Dao Hao Now

    Dao Hao Now Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2022
    Messages:
    153
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Words have meanings.
    I appreciate the fact that you include a definition to clarify your meaning.

    However, I was pointing out the discrepancy between the definition you provided and the example you gave.
     
  12. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Not clear on what this comment means. What was said that you want my comment on?
     
  13. Policy

    Policy Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2022
    Messages:
    3,648
    Ratings:
    +2,711
    Religion:
    none
    That's ok. If it takes this much effort to move beyond name calling, I doubt that it's worth my effort.
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    22,908
    Ratings:
    +11,907
    Religion:
    None
    Depends.

    An awful lot of supernatural claims
    intrude into what science can investigate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    22,908
    Ratings:
    +11,907
    Religion:
    None
    The only "fact" there that two people said something.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    16,065
    Ratings:
    +6,171
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Actually we agree. The rest is best judgment.
     
  17. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    71,932
    Ratings:
    +36,588
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    I did not claim that there's a rational argument. Rational arguments are in the realm of the material, including science.
     
  18. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    71,932
    Ratings:
    +36,588
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    Stop the presses. We happen to agree on this point.
     
  19. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    71,932
    Ratings:
    +36,588
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    That's true. Too many supernatural claims are just superstition. But there are things science can't examine because science is limited.
     
  20. Dao Hao Now

    Dao Hao Now Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2022
    Messages:
    153
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Atheist
    As you correctly point out;
    The information is “purported to be” (i.e. alleged: asserted; doubtful; suspect; supposed) the direct experiences of those with psychic/clairvoyant senses.

    Of course there is ‘testimony’ of psychic/clairvoyant senses, but no clear ‘evidence’ of such.
    Again, words have meanings.

    While you are forming judgments of quality (how is this determined?) and consistency of this data,
    do you consider ‘testimony’ to be of equal value as actual clear ‘evidence’ ( correctly using your previous definition; i.e. “the available body of ‘facts’ and information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.)?
     
Loading...