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Featured If No Religion - A Consideration

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ehav4Ever, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    One of the things that I find intresting about debates between those who beleive in some form of religion and those who do not is when the word religion(s) is used as if the religion itself is some type of sentient entity.

    For example, statements like:
    • Religions teach [fill in the blank],
    • Religions cause [fill in the blank]
    • Religions are the source of [fill in the blank]
    To me, it would stand to reason that this line of thinking doesn't address the real issues and cause an inanimate group of man-made ideas to become some type of unseen boogie-man. That is to say that religions are man made institutions, concepts, ideas, and formulations. If that is the case then it seems logical to conclude that the above statements would have to be adjusted in the following way.
    • People create religions, therefore humans teach [fill in the blank],
    • People create religions, therefore humans cause [fill in the blank],
    • People are the source of religion, there humans are the source of [fill in the blank]
    Thus, no humans - no religion. Humans eventually create institutions, concepts, ideas, and formulations thus there will always be some type of man-made source that causes all of the potentially unnatural problems of the world. (Unnatural meaning that the exertion of free will choices to create, destroy, invent, build, attack, repress, suppress, elevate, lower, criticize, harass, praise, etc.)
     
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Good luck trying to get religious folks to take responsibility for what their religion teaches, causes or being the source of what they believe.
     
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  3. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    But, that just the point, religions are man made institutions, concepts, ideas, and formulations.
    • People create religions, therefore humans teach [fill in the blank],
    • People create religions, therefore humans cause [fill in the blank],
    • People are the source of religion, there humans are the source of [fill in the blank]
    Saying "the religion" teaches or is the cause is what gives someone the ability to say, "Hey it wasn't me doing that. If was my religion doing it." Once you say, "the creator(s) of your religion and those who promote it/propogate it are the source or the teaching and actions around it," that puts the responbility in the proper place. In the hands of people.
     
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  4. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    It is my opinion that you are merely nit picking semantics.
    Group designations have been around for about as long as recorded history.
    With each one separating the humans that fit the group description from the humans who do not fit the group description.

    My experience has been that that there are a lot of people who instead of addressing the presented group description, want to whine and complain about how said group description does not apply to them.
    If said group description does not apply to you, then it is not you being described.
     
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  5. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    Okay. So using the model you just described who or what created/organized the group and the designations? Inanimate concepts or people?
     
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    Ah, so in contradiction to your OP, you are claiming that it is "people" who teach it not "religion"?
    I mean, you flat out state that it is man-made....
     
  7. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    Again, according to your view. Do people create and promote religions? If so, then religion is man-made, right?
     
  8. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    It appears you have not comprehended the post this is in reply to.
     
  9. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Not saying you are wrong just hard to get folks to accept responsibility for what they believe. Most believe what they believe comes from divine authority. Even if from a human messenger.
     
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  10. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    There are lots of things that people have a hard time accepting. Some even in the face of over-whelming evidence. There are some people who have a hard time believing that a product they have been sold is not worth much if they have "beleif in it or the manufacturer." This, in and of itself, is one of the situations that exists with the concept of beleif/faith. Especially, when it stands upon blind faith as a type of tenet.

    Yet, this isn't something pointing towards only the religious side of the spectrum. It also applies to the non-religious side. I.e. let's put the blame where it really belongs. If a "religious" war is being waged at the end of the day it is people starting and waging the wars using ideas, concepts, etc. created by other people. Their beleives about where those ideas/concepts don't change the source being man-made if that is the source of them.
     
  11. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    Care to enlighten me?
     
  12. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
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    My post is about PEOPLE, and has absolutely nothing to do with inanimate objects....
    Yet you insist on my specifying which it is about?
     
  13. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Religions aren't sentient, but they are memes (in the original sense of the word):

    Meme - Wikipedia
     
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  14. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    Greetings. Your post wasn't clear to me so I asked you questions to clarify. Now that I understand that your post is about people. My post is also about people. I.e. religion is created by people - thus it is man-made. So, it would seem that we agree. BTW, I did not use the statement inanimate objects - I wrote " inanimate group of man-made ideas." There is a vast differnce between the two.
     
  15. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    So, since it is from person to person. That means that people/humans are the creators/source of them and also the cause of their results.
     
  16. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Sorta, but that doesn't mean it's not useful to talk about religions as discrete things in their own right.

    And it doesn't mean that all aspects of a meme are necessarily deliberate creations of a person.
     
  17. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Active Member

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    I didn't say it wasn't useful. What I am saying is that at the end of the day one is talking about something that is concecptial and the invention of people. It is not like the idea created itself and manifests itself by itself. It is wholely possible that the people who invented them didn't think through the effects of what their creation would unleash (maybe it didn't matter to them) - nevertheless it is still thier creation and thus man-made. Their creation has no life on its own so if an idea/concepts evolves it is because someone human is updating/changing and then spreading it.
     
  18. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    And in keeping with this observation, I would assert that in many instances people choose to adhere to a religion because they feel it ratifies and validates the ideals and ethics (and biases) that they already hold. So that the religion does nothing to teach or change or inspire them. But rather, simply provides them with a feeling of self-righteous verification, and an excuse not to give their presumptions any further consideration.
     
    #18 PureX, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I suppose one could say before humans came on the scene ( aka Adam and Eve) that Earth was just a Zoo without people.
    Because God gifted humans with free-will choices then yes always be some type of man-made source.......
    The bad type of man-made source we see today is described in the verses at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.
    This does Not mean a forever on-going source because such people have caused the unnatural problems of this world of badness.
    And such people will come to their final end - Psalms 92:7; Isaiah 11:3-4.
    We are all free to act responsibly toward God and those who abuse such God-given freedom will come to an end.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    The ^ above ^ reminds me of people choosing a religion of 'their choice' in order to have their ' ears tickled ' ( hear what they want to hear ) - 2 Timothy 4:3
     
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