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If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Aamer, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    There is no evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh, - that is a later invention.

    In Tanakh he is YHVH's prosecuting attorney. He tests people, and if found wanting brings the person before YHVH and accuses him.

    Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    That word that keeps getting translated as "tempted" is peirazō and actually means tested.

    Mat 4:1
    Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested by the devil.

    Tested to make sure he was ready to start his ministry.

    *
     
  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Who said anything about the Tanakh ?

    Maybe you need to speak with those who goes by the Tanakh as you do.

    Otherwise it would be useless. To converse with someone who's going by one book, while your going by another book.
     
  3. Ingledsva

    Ingledsva HEATHEN ALASKAN

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    You are missing the point. Christians use Tanakh for Messiah texts, Satan, etc.

    There is no evil autonomous Satan in Tanakh. It was made of later. He is the TESTER.

    Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    That GREEK word that keeps getting translated as "tempted" is peirazō and actually means tested.

    Mat 4:1
    Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tested by the devil.

    The idea being, - Tested to make sure he was ready to start his ministry.

    This is a carry-over meaning of Satan from Tanakh. Satan is doing his YHVH assigned job - of testing.

    Zec 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to TEST him.

    Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

    Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

    *
     
    #1343 Ingledsva, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  4. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe He did so with me because I accepted Him as Lord and Savior.
     
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  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I agree. My self same spirit has been in male and female bodies.
     
  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Wait a second.... You state the Tanakh doesn't mention Satan, and then you quote Psalms 109:6 -- a book in the Tanakh -- to try and prove your point of Satan (being a tester, not a tempter)?

    Don't you see something wrong with that? (Or did I misunderstand somehow?) Unless, you care to revise that. In fact I think the Tanakh does imply a literal, evil Satan, in a few places. Exodus 7 and Daniel 12 are two.
     
    #1346 Hockeycowboy, Nov 4, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Good reasoning, Katzpur!
     
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  8. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Very good questions! The truth should be obvious: that Jesus and God are separate. Jesus was 'sent by' God, to be our Savior. John 3:16; John 17:3.

    The first-cent. Christians understood this. Did they worship Jesus? No. In fact, they called Him, God's "Servant". Acts of the Apostles 4:24-30.
     
  9. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Acts 7:59 (ESV Strong's) 59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

    If Jesus is standing on the right hand of God, and when we die we return to God's memory, why did Stephen ask Jesus to receive his spirit?


    If Jesus is sending the comforter, and Jesus won't leave us comfortless, but HE will come to us, is He sending Himself?
     
  10. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Whom are you trying to deceive? It's not true that "Jesus" was sent, correct? Wasn't it Michael who was "sent by God" to become Jesus?

    Let's just get the whole truth out there, so people can see it and be able to make an informative choice!
     
  11. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I have tried in my posts to use scriptures that show that the Messiah was both the Father and Son. The Father is the eternal Spirit of God, and was dwelling in the fleshly body he had made for himself, which he called the Son. Exactly as Isaiah 9:6 said he would be - the son would also be the mighty God, and the everlasting Father.

    I have also shown that the Father is the Holy Spirit. They are not two separate persons, but two different titles for one and the same Spirit. Remember there is only One God, and God is a Spirit, and he is holy. God had said I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. So the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, not another person.

    In John 14:26, the Father is sending the Comforter. In John 15:26, it is the Messiah who will send the Comforter. I was trying to show further scriptural evidence that He is both the Father and the Son.

    Then in the specific verse you are asking about - John 14:18, The Messiah is saying I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you. Once again, this shows that the Holy Spirit is dwelling in the Messiah or he couldn't say I will come to you - in effect saying I am the Comforter. So he is sending himself, because he is sending his Holy Spirit. He said he was dwelling with them but would soon be dwelling in them.
     
  12. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    You actually believe all that?

    Then please explain how the following verses have all 3 distinct. .

    Matthew 3:16-17 (ESV Strong's) 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

    We have Jesus on earth, the Spirit of God seen descending and a voice from heaven calling Jesus Son.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    This only shows, that you have no knowledge of the bible.

    The reason Jesus was tempted by the devil.
    When Adam was tempted by the devil, Adam failed. The devil took rulership from Adam.
    By Jesus being tempted by the devil,
    Jesus didn't fail,
    taking back the rulership from the devil.
     
  14. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do believe all that. Before I answer your next question, I would like a little more information.

    1. Which point in particular did you not believe? For instance do you disagree that God is a Spirit, or that he is holy, or do you believe there is more than one Spirit.

    2. Do you believe the Spirit of God is the Father or the Holy Spirit?
     
  15. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    I believe God is Spirit, but not the Holy Spirit.

    I believe the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit

    I believe that Jesus confirms the separate, but equal positions, of all three


    Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

    There is ONE name for all three persons, and that name is Jesus.

    Acts 10:47-48 (ESV Strong's) “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
     
  16. Sully

    Sully Member

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    The triune nature of God (the Trinity) I found confusing. It wasn't until college when I realized the confusing nature of matter that I could grasp the concept of the trinity. In Nature ( i.e., matter exists in three states and different locations simultaneously)...why would Nature (God's creation) be more complicated than God?

    The Bible seems to contradict itself when it states none have seen the Father...yet God interacted with people throughout the Old Testament. Pre-incarnate Jesus (God in glorified human form) appeared to Abraham, Jacob and was seen as the forth being in the fiery furnace of King Nebuchadnezzar. In fact the first verse of the Bible hints at the triune nature of God when it states In Beginning God (Elohim) which is the plural Hebrew word for God. It is a plural noun used with singular verbs. Throughout the Bible Elohim is used like this. If God was a nomad completely alone in a singularity it would likely just be written El. Chuck Missler in his book, "The Creator Beyond Time and Space" illustrates the triune nature of God in the creation of man. Man was created by God in his own image; however, prior to the creation of man we find a conversation between God (Elohim) and an unidentified being ("let Us make man in Our image"). Who is this person with whom God is speaking?

    God is infinite and creator of all things so I believe he can and did:... emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:7


     
  17. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    I don't see how the two statements you made above are compatible. (If God is Spirit, then his Spirit is the Spirit of God.) Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not God?

    How many different Spirits do you believe in that are God? Ephesians 4:4 says there is one Spirit.
     
  18. Sully

    Sully Member

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    God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...I don't see the contradiction...the triune nature of God. There is one God...the Holy Spirit is one aspect of God as is Christ.
     
  19. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    God is a Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a Spirit, and now Jesus is a Glorified Spirit man.

    God is a Spirit, and there is the Spirit OF God

    I'm saying that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, together, are God.
     
  20. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sully,

    Nowhere in the scriptures did any of the apostles ever mention there being a triune God or trinity. If you disagree please provide the verse.

    Which person is the Father of the Son? Matthew 1:18-20 ...she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. ...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit is the Father. There is only one God. The one God is a Spirit. There is only one Spirit. God is Holy. God said in the last days I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. So, the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, not another person of the Godhead.
     
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