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If Jesus was God, explain this verse...

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Aamer, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    John 20:28 I took it from YOUR post
     
  2. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    ???
    your statement "lord of me and god of me".


    Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” NIV
    And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. JUBILEE BIBLE
    T'oma answered him, "My Lord and my God!" HEBREW NAMES VERSION
    Thomas answered Him, My Lord and my God! AMPLIFIED VERSION
    T’oma answered him, “My Lord and my God!” COMPLETE JEWISH VERSION

    Savage... I don't know what version you are reading... but none of the dozens of versions plus the Spanish version say what you have just posted.

    Unless it is a language (like unto Spanish) where things are said backwards.

    Also, I believe I said in another post that a Jew would never call a simple man "my God" or "God of me".
     
  3. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    OK I use the Greek. :)

    Can you do links? Here: http://biblehub.com/text/john/20-28.htm

    611 [e] apekrithē ἀπεκρίθη answered
    2381 [e] Thōmas Θωμᾶς Thomas
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and
    3004 [e] eipen εἶπεν said
    846 [e] autō αὐτῷ to him,
    3588 [e] HO Ὁ the
    2962 [e] Kyrios Κύριός Lord
    1473 [e] mou μου of me
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and
    3588 [e] ho ὁ the
    2316 [e] Theos Θεός God
    1473 [e] mou μου. of me!

    It's free! (and very handy)
     
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  4. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    hahaha - just like Spanish... it still says "My Lord and My God" and since it is Theos - God should be capitalized.
     
  5. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Nope! The Biblehub link. Am I imagining it?
     
  6. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Interesting... when I hit it, this comes up ...

    Screen Shot 2016-09-29 at 4.15.19 PM.png
     
  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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  8. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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  9. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Those are auto links if you spell it correctly.
     
  10. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    Hahahaha Bible Hub is how I know so much and can irritate the Jehovah's Witnesses on line (I don't do it on purpose).

    I see the irony. The Jehovah's Witnesses say they are alone doing the will of God (Jehovah), preaching The Good News which is Jesus and God's will be done on Earth by obeying the Bible. They call every other religion Babylon the Great. I think it is the Baptists that make Bible Study free on the Bible Hub. They are going to die, according to Jehovah's Witness interpretation of scripture, even though they are preaching Jesus for much less personal cost than the JWs ever did or do.
     
    #1030 savagewind, Sep 29, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
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  11. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    Have I said "thank you" for an enjoyable back-and-forth discussion?
     
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  12. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    You're very welcome and thank you too!
     
  13. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

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    ancient as the word itself until they called it the true christians
    ~;> your not imagining it
    coz sometimes theres a thing that pops up unto the monitor unexpectedly
    thats why
    expect the unexpected
    if we may say so

    by the way
    whats the translation of this verse from jehova's witness bible
    as it is written
    :read:
    Revelation of John 3:12
    The one who wins the nitzachon (victory) I will make an ammud (pillar) in the Beis Hamikdash of Elohai and never may he go out of it [Tehillim 23:6] and I will write upon him ha-Shem of Elohai and ha-Shem of the Ir Hakodesh of Elohai--the Yerushalayim HaChadasha descending down out of Shomayim from Elohai--and ha-Shem HeChadash of me. [Yechezkel 48:35]


    :ty:




    godbless
    unto all always
     
  14. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    John 3:12 New World Translation Bible If I have told you earthly things and you still do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
    Revelation 3:12-13
    12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God+ and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem+ that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.+13 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’

    2000 years ago we believe Jesus conquered evil and it is written that he received all authority in Heaven and on the Earth
    Now Jehovah's Witnesses teach that he becomes the rider on the white horse (Revelation 6:2). WHAT has he to conquer more than he did and why is he given a crown 2000 years after he received all authority?
     
    #1034 savagewind, Sep 29, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  15. Kelloggs

    Kelloggs Member

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    The book of John for an instance pictures both Jesus' divinity and humanity.

    His Divinity:
    John chapter 1 pictures Jesus as the: word, life, light, son-of-God.
    All these attributes were attributed to God in the Old Testament. The New Testament Writer (John) assigned these attributes to Jesus.

    His Humanity:
    It also pictures him became 'flesh' (John 1:14)
    He wept (John 1:14), He was tired and thirsty (John 4:6-7).

    Note that as according to the writer of the book, there is no contradiction in picturing both his divinity and humanity. Both had to be pictured. Both carried theological and spiritual meanings for the readers.

    The Temptation (Matthew 4:1-11):
    Like all of us, Jesus was 'tempted' but he did not 'sin'.
    The test in the wilderness tempted Jesus on ultimately three things:
    1. To increase economical life of the people in the land - (by turning stone into food)
    2. To become the Messiah (a religious leader) - (by surviving a temple suicide)
    3. To become a King (a political leader) - (by succumbing to Satan and receiving worldly kingdom)
    Jesus understood himself that his coming was not for those purposes :)
     
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  16. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    No where in scripture does it say that. Can you give us a verse that says his spirit came into his body at some point?

    What about John? Doesnt it say that he was sent from God? Does that mean God sent him to earth from heaven? So John pre-existed too then.....

    Christ was "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8) - the chief cornerstone "foreordained before the foundation of the world". (1 Peter 1:20). The building will duly be fitly framed together (Eph. 2:21) to constitute its part in the "kingdom prepared . . . from the foundation of the world." (Matt. 25:34). Christ was "foreordained", but not formed until born of the virgin Mary in the days of Herod the king. Likewise, the glory he had with his Father was in the divine plan of the great Architect.

    Paul wrote, "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." (Eph. 1:4).

    Of Jeremiah, the LORD said: "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jer. 1:5).

    The context is sufficiently clear that Christ is not "Very God". His power and authority are derived, not innate: "As thou hast given him {Christ} power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him." (John 17:2).

    So you see that God can have glory with someone that hasnt been born yet. IT gives him pleasure to know that it is in his plans that we will exist.
     
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  17. ukok102nak

    ukok102nak Active Member

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    ~;> christjesus is our lord and saviour
    the only begotten son of god
    and his father is
    the father almighty who is good even before the creation of light in this reality
    and the words of god the fathe
    is the truth same as the words of christjesus the only begotten son of god
    the father almighty creator of
    heaven and earth
    therefore
    christjesus is also a god
    and his not greater than his father
    the god almighty

    the same any human who became a son
    of their father here on earth
    who is not greater than their father who is made out of flesh

    the difference between christjesus and everyone here on this earth is
    god the father almighty
    personally prepared a body in order to have for christjesus
    to become his son in human form
    becaused god the father almighty
    says this things to him that perhaps only few could notice
    so as it is written
    :read:
    Psalms 2:7
    I will tell of the decree. The Lord said to me, "You are my son. Today I have become your father.

    Hebrews 1:5
    For to which of the angels did he say at any time, "You are my Son. Today have I become your father?" and again, "I will be to him a Father, and he will be to me a Son?"

    so notice now that god the father
    never even did he say unto the angels
    at any time, "You are my Son . ...
    and
    notice also
    that the verse from Psalms 2:7
    and
    the verse from Hebrews 1:5
    are equally corroborating unto each other

    now again
    if we put this in the context written in the scriptures
    you would notice
    as it is written
    :read:
    Psalms 40:6
    Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you have prepared for me. You have not required burnt offering and sin offering.
    7 Then I said, "Behold, I have come.
    It is written about me in the book in the scroll.

    thats why
    those some people who cant even recognise the one who
    have not required burnt offering and sin offering.
    so as it is written
    :read:
    Hebrews 10:8
    Previously saying, "Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin you did not desire, neither had pleasure in them" (those which are offered according to the Law),

    tha same can also be said unto this verses like those that are written above


    :ty:




    godbless
    unto all always


     
  18. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    First, there is no scripture that says your spirit came into your body at some time... does that mean you have no spirit?

    Then we have Hebrews saying that God prepared a body for Him - a necessity in as much as he wasn't born through an egg and sperm:

    Hey 10:5-6 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering Thou has not desired, but a body Thou hast prepared for me; in whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin Thou has taken no pleasure. Then I said, "Behold, I have come (in the roll of the book it is written of me) to do Thy will, o God."

    We know he existed before hand (John 17 as mentioned before, John 1 and others) and we know that the Holy Spirit placed him in a body because he was not born of a man.



    Apples and eggs and the two don't mix. John was born of a man and a woman... Jesus was not. You can't compare.

    Therefore this is irrelevant. Additionally, no other man share God's glory in Heaven before he was born.
     
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  19. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does. What is spirit in the bible?

    The Hebrew word for spirit is "ruach" The spirit of God - ruach Elohim. It means breath, wind, spirit. Solomon uses it in Ecl, where he says that the spirit (or breath) returns to God.

    In Greek, it is "pneuma". It means the same thing. Breath, wind or spirit. But not a spirit in the sense that your talking about. We are not "given" a spirit or a "soul", that is false pagan doctrine.

    You can also write those words as, life, mind, a way of thinking, etc.

    Again, your thinking that Christ pre-existed. It's not saying that. God DID prepare Jesus in many ways. God was working through his son. Always. Great verse, thank you.

    But Jesus was born of a woman. And that is the whole point of being "born". God created a being in Mary. He didnt pre-exist. Scripture knows nothing of that. He had to be born of a woman to inhirit Adam's nature, to overcome sin. If he was a God, temptation would be nothing. That atonement would be nothing. '

    God knows the beginning to the end. God already knew Christ and us before we were born.
     
  20. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    No, you do have a spirit. IMHO.

    Correct. Notice there is a spirit in man.

    Although it can be used in different applications (like we use the word love, as in I love pizza and I love my wife, same word different applications)
    As applied to the spirit of man:
    Ps. 31:5 Into thine hand I commit my spirit: thou hast redeemed me, O LORD God of truth.
    Ps 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
    Ps 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.

    there are more.

    However, you seem to have missed the other definition of Gen where after God breathed into man a spirit, God also made him a living soul (notice the two parts of the eternal man)

    Nephesh - nee'-fesh Noun Feminine
    Definition
    1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
      1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
      2. living being
      3. living being (with life in the blood)
      4. the man himself, self, person or individual
      5. seat of the appetites
      6. seat of emotions and passions
      7. activity of mind
        1. dubious
      8. activity of the will
        1. dubious
      9. activity of the character
        1. dubious

    No... it is scriptural and true. (and you haven't offered your perspective of what is man then)

    1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Pneuma: as you stated... the breath or spirit also used for the Holy Spirit of God... God is a Spirit... we are too
    Soul - Pseuche (where we get Psycology from ) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.) (Strong's Concordance)
    Body... you know

    Again... I disagree completely as per words spoken...
    Not just the multiplicity of scriptures that I have already mentioned but also:
    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    The Son of man "which is in heaven" dictates that he pre-existed.

    You are correct that he had to come in the nature of human (but sinless as God created him). But you forget Phil 2 where it declares that He emptied himself of His God attributes. As a man, He was tempted and the atonement was everything for the believer.

    As much as I knew my son before we conceived him but The Word was with God and the Word was God and nothing that was made was made without Him.

    It sounds like we agree to disagree. But think of it this way--man was bankrupt. A bankrupt entity can be purchased by an entity that can absorb the deficit. Another simple bankrupt man can not and could not absorb the cost of mankind's bankruptcy. The next corporate body that that had equity were angels. One angel didn't have enough equity to absorb man's bankruptcy and Hebrews said "To which of the angels did God say 'sit at my right hand until I make the enemies a footstool'"? The answer was "none" because Adam, in his original state, was created higher than angels. That leaves just one corporate body that could absorb the cost of man's bankruptcy and still remain solvent... God- Emmanuel - God with us!
     
    #1040 KenS, Oct 1, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
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