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Featured If humans can't unite on religion, is there a purpose to religion?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Link, May 26, 2021.

  1. Pete in Panama

    Pete in Panama Active Member

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    Something that (if I may) needs to be said here, that it never matters of God doesn't make sense to us. It's not God's job to make sense to us, He's got bigger fish to fry. It's our job to make sense out of God and if it's to hard for us then we really need to focus harder, get help, or just learn to deal w/ it. fwiw, it's been my experience that:
    1. God loves us.
    2. God is good.
    3. God is merciful.
    4. God is all knowing & all powerful.
    5. Stuff like that.
    Given the above we can put up w/ the times He's doing something over our pay-grade.
     
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  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Whatever God does is over our pay-grade. :D
     
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  3. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    I agree with the video that anything we believe should be subjected to reasoned skepticism. Where it falls short is that, as with Philosophy in general, there is an assumption that we can rely solely on our own perceptions and feelings to determine what constitutes a core truth. This allowance for the validity of subjective feelings as an accurate means of determining what is real is fundamentally flawed. Cognitive science can demonstrate the multitude of ways we human beings can get things wrong. Instead, we require means and methods that allow us to verify our perceptions outside ourselves.

    The other issue that is not acknowledged, is that there are some questions that can be answered as either true or false, but other questions may have no right or wrong answer. Things like aesthetics and ethics would fall into this latter category.
     
  4. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Let's note that mortals don't learn about a God from a God, but from other mortals who already believe a long list of contradictory things about the various god concepts.

    So what needs to be said in response to what you say needs to be said is that we should consider that the gods we hear about are likely imaginary and not independent phenomenon that is engaging with us.

    I suggest the reason why some folks aren't getting much from god is that the mortal isn't playing the role of god in their mind to make up for it not existing as expected.
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I agree we should not choose a religion based upon our own perceptions and feelings, but there will, always be a subjective element in our choice because perceptions and feelings exist. Feelings can lead one astray but they can also lead one to truth because the heart is the home of God.
    What methods do you think would allow us to verify our perceptions outside ourselves?
    If we are looking at a religion and trying to determine if it is true, it is best to start by looking at all the facts surrounding that religion.
    That's true, and there does not always have to be a right or wrong answer.
    The video was not designed to cover everything, it was just a brief overview.
     
  6. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    That may work for you, but I certainly do not buy it. Are you telling me ancient Greek culture from the 6th century BC did not have the capacity to understand or accept monotheism?

    How would you characterize the Arabian Peninsula as finally being ready for monotheism in the 7th century AD, when the majority of conversion was through military conquest?
     
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  7. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    Given the historical record, your characterizations of God do not match observations.
    Simply stating that God is all knowing and all powerful does not mean that it is true.
     
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  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I cannot say that I know because I am not very well-versed in history. There could be other reasons for polytheism, like people misinterpreting scriptures and thus believing they referred to many gods when in fact they referred to one God. Also, since there are no original scriptures penned by the Prophets of the older religions, there were only oral traditions later written down, so much of the original meaning was lost.
    Are you saying you think that Muslims were not ready because they did not willingly choose to convert to Islam?
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    When was God ever observed in history?
    That's right. God is all knowing and all powerful is a belief and as such it cannot be proven true or false.
     
  10. Pete in Panama

    Pete in Panama Active Member

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    That's a possibility just as is "Last Thursdayism". What is a fact is that only just over 2% of the world's population is atheist (from Google),
    [​IMG]
    so most folks work w/ a God as described above.
     
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  11. Pete in Panama

    Pete in Panama Active Member

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    Like I was saying above, lots of folks have lots of observations. Like, some believe in Last Thursdayism & there is no logical way of refuting what they believe. Just over 2 percent of the world is flat out atheist (according to google) and while that's probably more than we got w/ the Last Thursdayists it's still far from the vast majority.

    So I'm content w/ working w/ things as they are now, that most people's "observations" are of a God described above.
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I wonder how A&E could be set up for failure when out of all the trees on Earth only 'one' tree belonged to God.
    Because they had free-will choices they could freely choose to obey or not. They were Not robots, Not automatons.
    In other words, without free-will choices a person would have No choice but to obey or disobey.
    If you had a generous neighbor with many fruit trees and said to you come over at any time and have as much fruit as you want except for one fruit tree, would you consider your neighbor as setting you up to disobey him_________

    Their ' wisdom ' so to speak, was corrupted Not by God but by God's adversary Satan.
    Eve had the wisdom to answer Satan at Genesis 3:2-3, so Eve knew the Law about that one tree.
    They had the knowledge, the wisdom, the act responsibly toward their God.
    God told them what was good, Eve decided she wanted to experience (have knowledge) of the bad.
    The bad, the evil, which they were already informed would be ' death ' - Genesis 2:17.

    Where does it say God sent Satan to tempt them, on the contrary he was sent there to help them - Ezekiel 28:14-15
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    No, Not the Hebrew Scriptures, but rather the hate-filled corrupted religious leaders were deficient - Matthew 15:9
    Jesus exposed their deficiency with the many 'woes' brought out about them in Matthew chapter 23.
    Twice Jesus threw out greedy 'money changers ' out of the temple because they were fleecing the Flock of God.
    Those hate-filled Pharisees (Mark 7:1-7) were keeping Not the Hebrew Scriptures but their own traditions.
    We see this today in 'Christendom' (so-called Christian) because I find they teach church traditions, church customs as being Scripture, when Not being Scripture. Teach human ideas as being Scripture when Not being Scripture.
    So, the message was right, but the corrupted religious leaders wanted to and tried to change the message.
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Good question ^ above^ and I find a reason to be found at Genesis 1:28.
    God's purpose for Earth was that Earth be fully populated ( Not over populated, Not over-filled )
    In other words, we were to all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve.
    God does Not go back, so to speak, on His original purpose for Earth.
    So, even if Jesus (Messiah) would have come back in the days of Genesis, Earth would Not have been populated.
    The passing of time was needed for us to born (populate Earth) and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
    If there was No coming resurrection, then none of this would make sense.
    Because there ' is going to be ' a resurrection...... - Acts of the Apostles 24:15 - is why everything will make sense.
    In the 'Resurrection Day' (Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) all the resurrected will have the opportunity to live forever as was originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
     
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    God is Not ALL powerful: because there are things God can Not do - God can Not lie - Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18.
    God is Not ALL knowing: because notice at Revelation 7:9 the 'great crowd' is an 'un-known' number of people.
    Because God created humans with free-will choices is why God does Not know everything.
     
  16. MikeF

    MikeF Proponent of RAEism
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    I get that the OT and NT work for you, but I do not find that they are reliable sources of information. There are those who insist they should be interpreted literally and those who say the stories are only metephor used to teach God's plan for humanity, but if they are to be taken literally, they clash with reality in a multitude of ways. If metaphorical, then it begs the question of whether the stories are not simply the creation of their human authors. And since the metaphorical stories are rooted in one region and it's culture, and conflicting scriptures arose in other parts of the world that reflect those cultures, to me it seems quite evident that these stories are stories created by man, not a universal diety. For me, there are irreconcilable problems with all scriptures that I have some familiarity with.
     
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  17. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Which is largely learned behavior that is rooted in how humans evolved with tribal inclinations.

    Argument from popularity is a logical fallacy for a reason. And atheists and non-religious should be in the same general category. The word "atheist" carries a lot of negative baggage that many prefer to avoid.
     
  18. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    What exactly is it they claim to observe that is considered a god?
     
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  19. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member
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    I'm not sure this is necessarily fitting for all non-religious individuals. For example, I have met a good number of people who believe there is some kind of divine being/s, but aren't really interested in finding out what it is. They would be non-religious, but not atheist. That may be important if you're graphing beliefs. However, if you were graphing religious activities(such as performing ritual or attending services), non-religious and atheist may be similar enough to group together.
     
  20. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Having free will doesn't mean making stupid choices. People tend to make stupid decisions because they don't have maturity and experience. If parents tell a 7 year old kid not to play with matches in the house, well it's a gamble they will obey. Some kids weill be curious what happens when they play with ,matches, and it runs out to be a minor fire in the house.

    Now a God wants to create people who are expected to follow the rules it gives them. Does the god create naive and immature beings that are easily tempted? Or does it create them with adequate understanding of the consequences of breaking the rules? It's the later IF the god really wants them to obey.

    the scenario where A&E are expected to obey without any understanding why are the robots. Just do as you're told, don;t think, don't understand.


    The serpent in the Garden.
     
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