If humans can't unite on religion, is there a purpose to religion?

[74x12]

So then how are the beliefs of Christians relevant to those on another continent whose religious beliefs and culture differs?

What do you mean another continent? Isn't India in Asia? In fact the same continent as Judea which is where Christianity originates from.

So you're suggesting Christianity is in a crude and incomplete form that is still in progress? Is the some 41,000 sects part of this process? How do you explain the massive division?

No, that's not what I meant. It is people themselves that are imperfect. I do not explain the massive division. God's church is known only to God and anyone can call themselves Christian. That's their business.

 

[Truthseeker]

I'm not religious.

Truth isn't something else separate from the human mind. It has no consciousness or intent. It's just an abstraction.


The problem starts when people think it can be found by searching. If you don't know what what truth is, how does a person know when they find it? See how it's a trap?


Some of those folks are the one's who find it.

Of course it's not that they find it, it's that its a realization.

Unfortunately, that means that there will be a vast number of people in the grip of whatever truth system they are in I would think. That seems so bleak for so many people. They will just accept the truth that they inherit. How did you get what you think is realization? How does it happen? I know so little about how you process things.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said:
How do you believe that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his Kingdom?
Do you have any Bible verses to back up what you believe?

Neuropteron said:
Dan 2:44-...
Mat 4:23
Matt 6:33
1Cor 15:24
Eph 5:5
Rev 12:10

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Read full chapter

The verse says God will set up a kingdom, but we don't know if it refers to a kingdom in heaven or on earth, and the verse does not say that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his Kingdom.

Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Read full chapter

We know that there will be a kingdom of God on earth because Jesus told us to pray for it to come, that verse does not say that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his kingdom.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
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This verse says to seek the kingdom of God, the verse does not say that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his kingdom.

1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
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This verse says delivered up the kingdom to God, the verse does not say that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his kingdom.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
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Again, the verse does not say that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his kingdom.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Read full chapter

Again, the verse does not say that God will remove wickedness from the earth by means of his kingdom.

* * * * * * * * *

One thing we know is that Jesus is not going to be involved in setting up a kingdom of God on earth, because Jesus said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[MikeF]

You ask good questions and it is obvious to me that you are a thinker. No, universal truths do not change over time. Spiritual truth is eternal and it will never change; it is faith, knowledge, certitude, justice, piety, righteousness, trustworthiness, love of God, benevolence, purity, detachment, humility, meekness, patience and constancy.

However, the second part of religion which refers to the material world changes with every new religion that is revealed.

“The second part of the Religion of God, which refers to the material world, and which comprises fasting, prayer, forms of worship, marriage and divorce, the abolition of slavery, legal processes, transactions, indemnities for murder, violence, theft and injuries—this part of the Law of God, which refers to material things, is modified and altered in each prophetic cycle in accordance with the necessities of the times.” Some Answered Questions, p. 48

The current Messenger of God defines the social teachings and Laws for the current times. According to Baha’i teachings, the assumption has to be made that if a new Messenger brings a new revelation and He was sent by God, whatever he revealed is identical with the Will of God. We might not agree with the Messenger, but if we argue with it that is as much as saying we think we know more than God about what is moral and what is in the best interest of humanity collectively.

People have had to jump through different hoops in different ages to be in line with God's will, which is for their own good, because God reveals teachings and laws that are in humanity's best interest.

Is God changing the message to suit the times, or are people creating an image of God that meets their needs and fits in with their societal structure, culture, norms? Given the disparity of messages and characterizations of God (or Gods for that matter), it is much more probable that all these explanations concerning God come from Man not God.
We can't choose a prophet or spiritual message simply because it feels right, wouldn't you agree? If our wants and desires hold sway over belief and understanding of God, then there is a unique and different God for each of us. God becomes whatever we want God to be.
As we have agreed that we human beings are fallible, we need a way to evaluate conflicting messages about God or Gods that does not rely solely on our fallibility or the fallibility of prospective Prophets or Messengers of God.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Hi,

God is the one that decrees what is moral and immoral. We all have the same information on morality, it's not hidden.

According to Ro 13:4 the Governments have been given temporarily the authority to stop criminal behavior.
"...God's minister to ... to bear the sword and express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad".
Obviously they are not doing so perfectly, and thus can be seen as a temporary measure to contain complete anarchy until their sovereignty is removed.

God promises that He, by means of his Kingdom will remove wickedness from the earth.

I guess where I was going with this was if some things are considered immoral by Christian standards but not by other standards (e.g. homosexual sexual activity, worshipping other than God), and Christians have the responsibility of eradicating those 'immoral' things and those who do those 'immoral' things, that could lead to Christians and Christian-led temporal governments potentially killing those who do those 'immoral' things. But I guess you have answered that already by saying that that will be God's Responsibility, rather than human responsibility?

 

[Link]

I believe our generation is somewhat lest racist, more compassionate, and cares about the poor more, but still not enough as the dignity a human requires.

I believe there is a chance, we become rational, leave divisions, and come to the truth, but let's see if we can awaken to the word of light and accept miracles in principle, so as to be shown them in reality.

 

[F1fan]

What do you mean another continent? Isn't India in Asia? In fact the same continent as Judea which is where Christianity originates from.

That's true. but I was meaning that Christianity being largely a religion of the West, Europe, the Americas, and Australia. Hinduism is in India. Shinto is in Japan. China has it's traditions. It has its own thing going on. Even back when Judaism was isolated to the Middle East. Even Christianity was a minor set of splinter groups until the 4th century.

My point is is that Christianity has largely been irrelevant to much of the world. How are Christian beliefs relevant to them when they have their own religious traditions, some of which are older than Judaism and Christianity and Islam?

No, that's not what I meant. It is people themselves that are imperfect. I do not explain the massive division.

Well if the Creator wanted unity under a message from jesus why didn't it create people with less inclination for division and tribalism, and with a message that is clear and less open to broad interpretation?

God's church is known only to God and anyone can call themselves Christian. That's their business.

So it's a crap shoot, and no one knows if they have the truth or not, including you, an imperfect mortal, yes?

It's a gamble, good luck, you'll find out in the afterlife. You didn't get this idea from Jesus.

 

[Link]

So it's a crap shoot, and no one knows if they have the truth or not, including you, an imperfect mortal, yes?

That is conjecture, if truth is proven to people, they know it. If you don't know, it doesn't mean other humans don't.

 

[F1fan]

Unfortunately, that means that there will be a vast number of people in the grip of whatever truth system they are in I would think. That seems so bleak for so many people. They will just accept the truth that they inherit. How did you get what you think is realization? How does it happen? I know so little about how you process things.

How does this not apply to Christians? With about 41,000 sects Christians as a whole seem quite confused, so maybe that's because it's not the truth.

 

[Link]

How does this not apply to Christians? With about 41,000 sects Christians as a whole seem quite confused, so maybe that's because it's not the truth.

There can be only one or two humans who knows the truth on earth, still, you got to ask God to guide you to it and strive to find it.

 

[F1fan]

That is conjecture, if truth is proven to people, they know it.

Tell that to 74x12.

But then look at how many fervent believers of any given religion who are certain they have the truth. By their own certainty they conflict with all others who are certain in some different truth. So your claim here is false. Fallible mortals, like you and me, can believe we are certain, but that suggests we are more likely mistaken.

If you don't know, it doesn't mean other humans don't.

I see many who believe they do have absolute truth and knowledge, as if they are a god themselves. To my mind that suggests to me they are lost.

I suggest one major truth is to accept that we mere mortals are fallible, and that our own judgments are not sufficient to declare that whatever truth we find for ourselves ends with us, and has no authority, or relevance, to anyone else.

Do you think you have the absolute truth, despite being a fallible mortal, who is prone to errors of judgment?

 

[Link]

Tell that to 74x12.

But then look at how many fervent believers of any given religion who are certain they have the truth. By their own certainty they conflict with all others who are certain in some different truth. So your claim here is false. Fallible mortals, like you and me, can believe we are certain, but that suggests we are more likely mistaken.


I see many who believe they do have absolute truth and knowledge, as if they are a god themselves. To my mind that suggests to me they are lost.

I suggest one major truth is to accept that we mere mortals are fallible, and that our own judgments are not sufficient to declare that whatever truth we find for ourselves ends with us, and has no authority, or relevance, to anyone else.

Do you think you have the absolute truth, despite being a fallible mortal, who is prone to errors of judgment?

I don't have all the truth, I have some of it.

By I do seek it and accept proofs, signs, and insights. Faith is to believe in signs of God when proven to you and to destroy the doubts that arise from murky uncleanness of sins.

The darkness hates the light, if you would but perceive.

 

[F1fan]

There can be only one or two humans who knows the truth on earth, still, you got to ask God to guide you to it and strive to find it.

if there can be only 1 or 2 people on earth who know the truth, who is this?

And if the truth is so detached from human understanding why is it so complex? What designed this bad system? Is this the best it can do?

 

[Link]

if there can be only 1 or 2 people on earth who know the truth, who is this?

The best human on earth who would be the proof of God and word of light is definitely one and there is always such a person.

As for the 2nd question, it's because of the sorcery of Iblis and his forces, that people don't perceive clear insights and proofs. As for the bad system, it's because we haven't accept God's chosen King. As for three, yes, unless he would force us to faith in which there would be no dignity and honor for humans left.

 

[F1fan]

I don't have all the truth, I have some of it.

So you might be missing something crucial, and you yourself naive. Perhaps humility is a lesson to be learned?

By I do seek it and accept proofs, signs, and insights. Faith is to believe in signs of God when proven to you and to destroy the doubts that arise from murky uncleanness of sins.

The darkness hates the light, if you would but perceive.

You illustrate the dilemma. If you are so deficient of the truth and seek it, how can you a deficient being know when you've found it? How does your ego and desperation fro truth not affect what you "find"?

If you go about looking for anything, you will find anything. How do you test what authentic truth is, and what is what your ego finds appealing?

 

[Link]

So you might be missing something crucial, and you yourself naive. Perhaps humility is a lesson to be learned?

You know me? Let me tell you a fun fact everyone around me says I have to develop some belief in myself and raise my ego, but everyone on the internet seems to think I am an ego maniac. Maybe it's because I am bit too assertive when I write?

 

[Link]

So you might be missing something crucial, and you yourself naive. Perhaps humility is a lesson to be learned?


You illustrate the dilemma. If you are so deficient of the truth and seek it, how can you a deficient being know when you've found it? How does your ego and desperation fro truth not affect what you "find"?

If you go about looking for anything, you will find anything. How do you test what authentic truth is, and what is what your ego finds appealing?

If you are sincere in seeking the truth, then you will be vigilant against falsehood. You look for proofs and hate conjecture and definitely will hate on relying on what is not proven.

It's a choice if we are self-honest enough to say we don't know something when we don't but doubt has no place, if certainty has no place. The first rule of doubt is to know when to stop doubting or it becomes such that you deny what you should be sure of and mix that with what you don't know.

Self-honesty, pondering, reflecting, seeking, effort, and patience.... then truth has a better chance to be revealed to a person who doesn't mix everything up.

 

[Link]

Also, the inverse is true, if deceive ourselves that we know for certain when we don't, both doubt and certainty lose their place.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We can't choose a prophet or spiritual message simply because it feels right, wouldn't you agree?

Has anyone ever chosen these things for any other reason (aside from things like family pressure and conversion at gunpoint/knifepoint)?

 

[Link]

Has anyone ever chosen these things for any other reason (aside from things like family pressure and conversion at gunpoint/knifepoint)?

How will you answer your question? Let's suppose no one, why don't you be different and be the first to stop this chaotic non-sense.