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Featured If Heaven Exists

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Balthazzar, Aug 19, 2022.

  1. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Isa 9:7, but there are different translations and that idea does not come through in some.
    Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish and sustain it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of Hosts will accomplish this.

    Matt 25:14-30 seems to point to possible challenges in the next life. I'm sure continued growth is what the Lord wants for us and so continuing challenges and responsibility etc would be a way to give us that.
     
  2. Reyn

    Reyn The Hungry Abyss

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    It does not directly state anything about challenges, only that there will be peace without end. It's an eternal monarchy, under a tyrant who rules with an iron first who you can't remove from power.
     
  3. Alien826

    Alien826 Older than dirt

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    I think the biggest problem would be boredom. Let's say that in heaven we could do and experience anything at all, with the only restriction being that we could not do anything that interfered with the ability of others to do the same thing. [1] Then add eternity. How long before I would have experienced everything I desired so many times that I was tired of them all?

    Anyone watch the series The Good Place? In the end they get to the Good Place (heaven) to find that the people who are already there have turned into mindless morons. The solution was to reintroduce death, but make it optional. [2]

    [1] This concept of heaven is the best I can do without having to change us so much that we would arguably not be the same people.

    [2] Another option would be to have us experience our own perfect day. Then wipe our memories and repeat. I find that unattractive for many reasons but it works.
     
  4. Moon

    Moon Well-Known Member

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    I think most rational people believe heaven is here and now.
     
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  5. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    If we are to be in Heaven we must meet the requirements to be there.

    I can’t be in medical school very long if I refuse to wash my hands.
    So to be in any particular part of Heaven I will have to learn to live by those laws.
     
  6. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    I think there's contrasting realities in the here and now. I typically get the some of this and that. It aint all bad.
     
  7. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Are you able to convey some of these "laws"?
     
  8. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    I could try to dig up a list, but the 10 commandments is a great start.
     
  9. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    That's not exactly how I see it.
     
  10. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    I'm a NT type of guy .. I lean to side of honesty and truth. An honest spirit works wonders. It's steady, reliable, trustworthy, an excellent guide, and it helps keep people honest. The 10 commandments? Well, they help but are also deemed roo rigid and hard. Death is said to be the affect of - I guess I'm an ecclesiastican under the sun spirit of truth guided citizen and co heir of what's to be.
     
  11. Truth in love

    Truth in love Well-Known Member

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    Christ brought the higher law.

    That said He often spoke of those commandments as being valid even while replacing the lesser law of sheep burning and such.
    The directives given in Matthew 5-7 are excellent (frankly I've yet to learn to not get angry, but I'm doing better than years past).
    The better we are able to do in keeping God's laws the higher the level of heaven we can be qualified for.
     
  12. Link

    Link Veteran Member
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    The next world is about traveling to God. To understand how that is possible when God transcends his creation, you have to understand the role of the connectors to God. The path to God is Unseen in this world, the sign/proof Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) are is unseen, but the unseen becomes vividly seen in the next world. The connection of each Ahlulbayt (a) from sky to lowest earth, is always been a thing from Adam (a) to the Mahdi (a). "peace be upon you o light of those stuck in the darkness", even in the darkness, the Imam is there with every soul, no matter how misguided. But he won't force the sign and connection of the sky because its harmful to souls that are misguided to do so.

    Everything is a set up to return to God and be guided to God.

    If material pleasures was the goal, the trial of this world, trial of Angels with regards to Adam, all would be purposeless.

    There was no need to reward or punish, all would be created in paradise, and this world would not have come to be.

    But the fact is, the next world is closed by the nature of what it is, from those who journeyed away from God and died hating his light. They can't benefit from its water even if God wanted to, its forbidden upon them by nature of what it is and what they've become.

    The Quran is trying to make us perceive the next world to some degree with spiritual vision in this world. But people hate the idea of God punishing them, take it personally, and turn away from his guidance as a result.
     
  13. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Sheep burning? Oh, you mean the feed our community efforts and the requests to give a 10% portion to do so. Truth - it matters
     
  14. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    What concept of Heaven do you have in mind here?
     
  15. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    I'm suggesting it doesn't matter which concept is on the table if we're unable to simply get along in the here and now.
     
  16. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    Perhaps we will only get to Heaven when we are (spiritually) prepared/ready for it. Perhaps not everyone goes to Heaven, or not immediately.
     
  17. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    Or perhaps everyone will futuristically speaking on earth after it has been established. Until then, we're working for it as we are and through much hardship.
     
  18. Goldemar

    Goldemar A queer sort

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    I didn't quite understand you - are you saying you believe that Heaven will be established on Earth?
     
  19. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Veteran Member

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    We don't sustain heaven, God does.
     
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  20. Balthazzar

    Balthazzar Christian Evolutionist

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    That's the goal - peace on earth and goodwill
     
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