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Featured If God Writes Something With the Stars...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by thomas t, Feb 20, 2021.

?
  1. yes

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. no, I would search for or look out for answers the scientific method could provide.

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. no. Other reasons.

    3 vote(s)
    21.4%
  4. no, I would rather believe in aliens moving the stars, instead

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I think @thomas t here simply and humbly admits that he isn't that educated and has difficulties handling hypotheticals. I don't see any dishonest intentions. Hanlons's Razor is a great tool to keep a positive image of man.
     
  2. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Ignorance is not unethical, wilful ignorance is. There is nothing bad in asking questions you can't answer yourself. In fact, it is how we learn.
     
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  3. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Active Member

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    Astrologers believe that the stars determine human events. They are right, but not in the way that they think.

    Just as the hands of a clock tell time, motion of stars also tell time. Thus, if one knew that at 3PM, a dog would walk around the corner and bite someone, they could express that time either by the hands of a clock or the motion of the stars.

    In other words, stars are merely a clock, that marks the passage of time.

    The trick to predicting future events is to find a psychic who is very accurate about time (and few are). Then create predictions about those events happening when the stars are in a certain position.

    For example, in Revelation (a chapter of the bible) a psychic predicted that President George W. Bush would attack Iraq, according to the bible, W. Bush had the soul of a demon that had escaped from the bottomless pit of hell. A psychic should be able to narrow down when that attack was to occur. Indeed, it portends the end of the world, and many civilizations around the world, recorded the same predictions. For example, the Mayan calendar (previously used by the Olmec Civilization) predicts the end of the world quite soon, and that a dragon God will destroy it.
     
  4. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Active Member

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    God ordered us to seek the truth, so ignorance is unethical.
     
  5. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    I did have honest intentions, EH
    The question is so difficult because I never thought that through yet.
    Actually, I never would give up my faith, I think.
    If there are the two options:
    either give up my faith, or
    ... start thinking about how to reconcile it with the evidence...
    I would never opt for 1.
    This is at least what I suppose to be my own reaction.

    read this:

    atheists have little difficulty with that one as compared to theists...? I agree.
     
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  6. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    No, this is part of the game, I think,
    the edit function was still there so I edited the reply options to include the aliens option.

    Any poster is entitled to alter his vote.
     
  7. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    what kind of rule is this?
    I somtimes accept gifts that I don't offer to others, either.
    For my town I use a facebook group called "share and care", you just go and ask for what you want.
    If you have to offer something, you can do it there too.
    It's only about giving things away for free, not selling. You need a certain cable? sometimes people have two and offer one for free.
    In my opinion, that's totally fine.
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    Let me know when God does write such a message, and I'll let you know then.

    Now that I've answered your question, let me ask you this. If God does exist and wanted to demonstrate his existence, don't you think showing himself would be much less arduous than writing a message in the stars?
     
  9. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    yes. In principle yes.
    according to the Bible, last time he showed up they put him on the cross though...
     
  10. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    So you're saying he's afraid to show himself for fear of being put on a cross again?
     
  11. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    no.
    I compare it to the experiences made by a close contact of mine.
    She travelled to a country that had conservative clothing rules for the inhabitants of that country.
    She went to the beach in beach clothing ... and everyone stared at her breasts.
    No, she wasn't afraid of anything,
    it just got on her nerves.

    That's the way how God must feel if he would come into an environment in which every other person wants to kill him...

    This is my take on the issue.
     
  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    So God was annoyed when Jesus was crucified? And the reason he doesn't make an appearance in any form is because of that annoyance? Annoyance with people that have been dead for almost two millennia? Talk about holding a grudge!!
     
  13. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    About the best you could do would be to ask yourself which is most likely, or better, which is the simpler answer (Occam's Razor).

    Because let's face it, you would have to make a lot of assumptions about those aliens: that they know our relgious beliefs and books, that they have a reason to deceive us, that they are still natural, living beings that have the capacity to move stars around in the universe so as to be seen as letters from a single vantage point (ours), and on and on and on...

    In that scenario, I truly think it might be easier to accept the God hypothesis
     
  14. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    I read this after I just posted, and have to admit that you got there before I did.
     
  15. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Oh, I wouldn't worship such a being just on this evidence. Might does not make right.
     
  16. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    You are asking others to be open minded when you yourself choose not to be given a set of hypothetical evidence. That is a completely different thing than the irrelevant examples you provided.
     
  17. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    you know, I suppose that Jesus is God.
    But even if it's tow seperate entities... this doesn't change anything... or would you be keen to go to the very place where they murdered your child and say hi?
    In case you do:
    note that, according to the Bible, Jesus is set to reappear on earth, not God the father.
    He would certainly come across as a deity then, I think.

    When I wrote the answer it was on the premise that not much has been changed during the two last millennia, and people would react similarly to how they behaved two millennia ago.
     
  18. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    But the OP is not asking for knowledge. It's about keeping an open mind to strong evidence that runs contrary to one's beliefs. The poster is asking whether atheists have such an open mind, but is unwilling to commit to it himself. That is a hypocritical stance imo.
     
  19. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    This is something I do not understand. if the evidence clearly shows your belief is wrong, why hold onto your old belief?

    Saying you would *never* opt for giving up your faith seems the path to guaranteeing you will hold firm to a falsehood.

    I think of this as self-honesty. I know I can make mistakes, even with my most cherished beliefs. So, when the evidence becomes clear, I change my mind.
     
  20. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    no, I didn't ask others to be open-minded.
    I ask them to answer in case they have an answer on this issue.
    So, IF they are open-minded on this issue, they are invited to share their mind.
    This is the same thing on the "share and care" community. I don't ask others to give me cables if they don't have any.
    If they have some to spare, and if they want to give away some for free, I'd be thankful to fetch them, that's how it works there.
    And this is not hypocritical, either. So my OP isn't hypocritical, I think.
     
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