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Featured If God Writes Something With the Stars...

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by thomas t, Feb 20, 2021.

?
  1. yes

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. no, I would search for or look out for answers the scientific method could provide.

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  3. no. Other reasons.

    3 vote(s)
    21.4%
  4. no, I would rather believe in aliens moving the stars, instead

    1 vote(s)
    7.1%
  1. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    Would you believe him:
    a message like "hey, believe Jesus, he is my beloved son!"... and let's assume for a moment there are no language issues.
    So when God allocates the stars in a way that we read this message, would you believe in God then?

    I'm asking all posters from the atheist side...

    best regards
     
  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I don't believe everything I see, hear, and experience unless they provide some benefit, moral importance, and change in my life. If it does not, regardless the reputation, what's in a book, on television, what people say or what's written in the stars will only catch my attention but so long.

    To me, it has nothing to do with evidence. Evidence for many religions can pop up. That's irrelevant. If that god(s), whatever concept it may be, does not benefit my life and has no place, I will not choose to believe "in" it. Yes, if I knew that was god writing in the sky, of course I'd say that's a fact. However, does believing something is true mean you have follow what it teaches?

    The important thing is what is the nature of this god, is it important to me, what does it say that would make me want to give it any attention? Miracles are a dime a dozen but without that connection, it is what it is.
     
  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I don't see any value in 'if' arguments. They're not valid in my view. It hasn't happened yet, and is unlikely to happen.
     
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  4. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    People see Jesus in burnt toast. Just because you can see a pattern doesn't make it a message.
     
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  5. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    It would certainly be a strong case for someone named Jesus being the son of a creator of the universe.

    How this would be possible without language issues is an important issue, though.

    Now, suppose that, instead of that message, it said something like 'The Holy Koran is my Word'. Would you then change your beliefs?
     
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  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    If a polar bear burst into your house, and declared, "I'm God!" would you believe him?
     
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  7. thomas t

    thomas t non-denominational Christian

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    Thank you Poly.
    Actually your question is too difficult to answer for me. It would take me too long to ponder about it, so I permit myself to stop my brain at that point, ok?

    @Vinayaka same applies to your scenario, ok?
     
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  8. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    What's wrong with appearing on TV?
     
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  9. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Active Member

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    There aren't enough responses--only 3. I guess people don't like the question. I'm the one who cast the yes vote.
     
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  10. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I'm going to slightly modify my answer: that would be evidence that someone named Jesus was the son of the creator of *those stars*.

    Why is my counter question so difficult to answer? What sort of evidence would lead you to decide your beliefs are wrong and that some others are correct?
     
  11. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    The good old "What if <miracle>?" question. A thousand times asked (and a few dozen of those on RF) and a thousand times answered. Interestingly atheists have little difficulty with that hypothetical whereas believers, confronted with the "What if <other miracle>?" counter question, often react as you did in #7.
    I would first look for a scientific explanation. One miracle just isn't enough. I have a life long experience that magic doesn't exist and things that first seemed magical turned out to be explainable by science.
    What I don't really understand is that everybody else has the same experience but eagerly disregard that experience when there is the slightest chance that reality isn't real and the universe isn't orderly.
     
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  12. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    No, I wouldn't and the reason for that is because you can start asking other questions, which will ultimately lead to it being unreasonable or less likely to be caused by God.

    The universe is huge and at least in my opinion it is much likely that there are other life out there. Given that we ourselves are evidence for the possibility of life in the universe, that open the option for it being done by some alien race. Which in my opinion would already be enough to bet on that being the most likely answer compared to that of God.

    But let's assume that it was the actual stars and all possibilities of illusions etc. were removed. I still don't know how you would tell the difference between God and that of highly advanced aliens, simply using the message of the bible to deceive us for whatever reason?
     
    #12 Nimos, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  13. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    Its the same with constellations, people can see just about anything they want using the stars.

    I still maintain it will take a God to know a God.

    I'm more inclined to first acknowledge an advanced life form before acknowledging any diety.
     
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  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Do you mean something like this?

     
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  15. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    I don't see how the scientific method would help explain such a phenomenon. To move stars light years away from each other to spell out words when 1. It's likely impossible to move stars regardless of how technologically advanced you are, and even if it weren't you're moving hundreds of stars. 2. I'm no expert but I believe Albert Einstein may have proven that it's impossible to move at the speed of light. Some of these stars are decades away from each other in light years so for it to happen overnight? Impossible (not accounting for wormholes). 3. It requires there to be extraterrestrials that are so dedicated in making atheists on Earth believe in what was assumed to be a man-made God that they would go through such extreme lengths (it can't be easy to arrange hundreds of stars overnight).

    Doesn't Occam's Razor apply here? There's many more assumptions to say there is a scientific explanation for it while to believe God arranged the stars takes only two assumptions: 1. That God exists and 2. That God arranged the stars.
     
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  16. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    What a terrible, terrible evasion! His question is not different than yours in the OP by so much as a hairs-breadth!

    And I think that means that you didn't ask your OP question with any honest intention at all.
     
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  17. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Oddly, I answered "yes." I am someone who seeks evidence, and if it occurred as you posit the question, that would certainly constitute evidence.

    Even the language question -- there would be no "issue" if God handled it properly. Think of it this way, in my very multicultural (and multilingual) city of Toronto: Five people report what they saw, and there's a cunning linguist available who speaks all of their languages and can translate: Listen to what the observers report:

    The English guy says it reads, "hey, believe Jesus, he is my beloved son!"
    The Spanish guy says he sees, "oye, créeme en Jesús, él es mi hijo amado!"
    The Afrikaans speaker reports, "hey, glo Jesus, hy is my geliefde seun!"
    The Japanese lady reads, "ねえ、イエスを信じて、彼は私の最愛の息子です"
    And the German insists it says, "Hey, glaube Jesus, er ist mein geliebter Sohn!"

    And let me tell you this -- God would really have me if I looked up at the same time and read, "Hey, listen to those folks, that's what I actually said!"

    And late edit to add: "But, alas, that never seems to happen."
     
    #17 Evangelicalhumanist, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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  18. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Do not ask a question if you are not willing to answer it's counter yourself imho.
     
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  19. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Active Member

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    I agree. I'd convert to anything a Being that powerful told me to convert to, I don't care if it was the Flying spaghetti Monster.
     
  20. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    I have heard a Christian talk about something like this so I am interested even though not an atheist.
     
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