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If God Tells You He's Sending You To Hell

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
So you do not believe God is omnipotent.

While God doesn't have to be the determiner of our afterlife, God certainly can know what is determined for our afterlife. If he can't, he is neither omnipotent or omniscient.

Precisely. He is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient. He is not Omnipotent because he cannot, even if he wanted, interfere with our free will.
So he could never prevent a murder, for example. Or whatever thing, whether it is good or evil. I dare say that we are as powerful as God, given that our free will is the main limit to his power. The Freedom to decide.

He is not Omniscient because he cannot predict what our future actions will be. He can read in your mind, of course. But given that we have free will, we can change our mind at the last minute.
So if I decide that tomorrow I will do something, the next day I can change my mind at the very last minute.
So God can predict nothing, when it deals with our free will
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Let's say, hypothetically, regardless of which God as long as you had a view on the afterlife that is applicable.

That your God tells you that you'll inevitably end up in hell. Would you still love him? (P.S. You are positive it isn't a test)

If so, what if he told you that AND told you that he wont do anything about it because freewill apparently has more value than people. Would you still?


I'm pretty happy with this life. So what happens next, not a big issue for me.

Lets assume God is all-knowing so God should then know where I belong. So what's to argue? The All-Knowing knows I belong in hell. I'm suppose to what? Talk God out of it cause I know something God doesn't?

The truth is the truth. If I'm being judge on my freewill decisions then hey, I made the decisions I made. Who's to blame other then myself?
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
I think that depends. Is God's reason for sending me to Hell just? If so, then I'd have no reason discontinue loving Him. If not, then He isn't good and I think I'd have justification for not loving Him.
 

melk

christian open minded
Think you must search for a merciful/lover God/Father to overturn this wrathful/vengetive one, like the prodigal son did when he felt apart. And don't wait for people to lead you there, because that's up to you, the way you imagine God.
And remember, do never respond with hate, for this will really be your hell.
 
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The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Precisely. He is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient. He is not Omnipotent because he cannot, even if he wanted, interfere with our free will.
So he could never prevent a murder, for example. Or whatever thing, whether it is good or evil. I dare say that we are as powerful as God, given that our free will is the main limit to his power. The Freedom to decide.

He is not Omniscient because he cannot predict what our future actions will be. He can read in your mind, of course. But given that we have free will, we can change our mind at the last minute.
So if I decide that tomorrow I will do something, the next day I can change my mind at the very last minute.
So God can predict nothing, when it deals with our free will

Is the Bible irrelevant?
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I'm pretty happy with this life. So what happens next, not a big issue for me.

I don't think you're putting it into perspective if you feel that going to hell is "not a big issue"

Lets assume God is all-knowing so God should then know where I belong. So what's to argue? The All-Knowing knows I belong in hell. I'm suppose to what? Talk God out of it cause I know something God doesn't?

The truth is the truth. If I'm being judge on my freewill decisions then hey, I made the decisions I made. Who's to blame other then myself?

I know there's nothing that you can do about it. But it doesn't change your feelings about God?
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
Where does the Bible does that? Post the verse(s). I've never heard this.

"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."~ Matthew 7:13-14
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."~ Matthew 7:13-14

Okay, but I'm still not seeing any proofs for his additional statements:

it is where most believers end up. Loving god does not mean that you will not go to hell.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Let's say, hypothetically, regardless of which God as long as you had a view on the afterlife that is applicable.

That your God tells you that you'll inevitably end up in hell. Would you still love him? (P.S. You are positive it isn't a test)

If so, what if he told you that AND told you that he wont do anything about it because freewill apparently has more value than people. Would you still?

I'd repent. It worked for the people of Nineveh. If you read Jonah, you will notice that God told Nineveh that it would be destroyed: The whole city repented and God did not destroy them. ;) Here is the story from the Bible:

Jon 3:5 And the people of Nineveh believed in God, and they proclaimed a fast and put on sackcloth—from the greatest of them to the least important.
Jon 3:6 And the news reached the king of Nineveh, and he rose from his throne and removed his royal robe, put on sackcloth, and sat in the ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he had a proclamation made, and said, "In Nineveh, by a decree of the king and his nobles: "No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything! They must not eat, and they must not drink water!
Jon 3:8 And the human beings and the animals must be covered with sackcloth! And they must call forcefully to God, and each must turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
Jon 3:9 Who knows? God may relent and change his mind and turn from his blazing anger so that we will not perish."
Jon 3:10 And God saw their deeds—that they turned from their evil ways—and God changed his mind about the evil that he had said he would bring upon them, and he did not do it.

 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
That seems to be the only way of making sense of his comment.

The last line of the Athanasian Creed seems to take his side though.

"And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved."

And this creed is accepted by the Roman Catholic Church, as well as the Anglican, Episcopal, and Lutheran Churches, and other Mainline Protestant Churches.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
The last line of the Athanasian Creed seems to take his side though.

"And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved."

And this creed is accepted by the Roman Catholic Church, as well as the Anglican, Episcopal, and Lutheran Churches, and other Mainline Protestant Churches.

For how the Church currently understands the "no salvation outside the Church" teaching: What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means | Catholic Answers

I don't want people to get the impression that if you're not a Catholic, you're automatically damned, since it's more complicated than that.
 

Triumphant_Loser

Libertarian Egalitarian
For how the Church currently understands the "no salvation outside the Church" teaching: What "No Salvation Outside the Church" Means | Catholic Answers

I don't want people to get the impression that if you're not a Catholic, you're automatically damned, since it's more complicated than that.

So you don't have to "truly and firmly" believe anymore, yet it's still called "No Salvation Outside the Church?" Not to be rude...but it seems that those 2 things are completely contradictory to each other. :confused:
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
I'd repent. It worked for the people of Nineveh. If you read Jonah, you will notice that God told Nineveh that it would be destroyed: The whole city repented and God did not destroy them. ;) Here is the story from the Bible:

Jon 3:5 And the people of Nineveh believed in God, and they proclaimed a fast and put on sackcloth—from the greatest of them to the least important.
Jon 3:6 And the news reached the king of Nineveh, and he rose from his throne and removed his royal robe, put on sackcloth, and sat in the ashes.
Jon 3:7 And he had a proclamation made, and said, "In Nineveh, by a decree of the king and his nobles: "No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything! They must not eat, and they must not drink water!
Jon 3:8 And the human beings and the animals must be covered with sackcloth! And they must call forcefully to God, and each must turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.
Jon 3:9 Who knows? God may relent and change his mind and turn from his blazing anger so that we will not perish."
Jon 3:10 And God saw their deeds—that they turned from their evil ways—and God changed his mind about the evil that he had said he would bring upon them, and he did not do it.


I was afraid this would happen.

My hypothetical situation asks for people to consider too much that they don't believe is reality. But in this case at least, it is referring to an absolute determination, unchangeable fate.

The entire point of the question is to see in what way people love God. If they would still love God if they knew redemption was not on the other end of the tunnel. Because, as it appears, people either love God to avoid hell or else people love God because of the mercy seen from their perspective. This thought practice is meant to make those people see their God from an outsider perception, and to question if he really is merciful objectively or if the believer only sees him merciful for they are on the side of his mercy.
 
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ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
I was afraid this would happen.

My hypothetical situation asks for people to consider too much that they don't believe is reality. But in this case at least, it is referring to an absolute determination, unchangeable fate.

The entire point of the question is to see in what way people love God. If they would still love God if they knew redemption was not on the other end of the tunnel. Because, as it appears, people either love God to avoid hell or else people love God because of the mercy seen from their perspective. This thought practice is meant to make those people see their God from an outsider perception, and to question if he really is merciful objectively or if the believer only sees him merciful for they are on the side of his mercy.

I shouldn't have answered in the first place. I just don't see God in that way. :)
 

LuciaStar

Constant Seeker
Let's say, hypothetically, regardless of which God as long as you had a view on the afterlife that is applicable.

That your God tells you that you'll inevitably end up in hell. Would you still love him? (P.S. You are positive it isn't a test)

If so, what if he told you that AND told you that he wont do anything about it because freewill apparently has more value than people. Would you still?
Wellllll, Lucifer is my god so if I was told I would end up in hell, I'd be perfectly fine with it and still love him because ultimately, I'd end up where he is. For the most part, anyways. And as for the second question... I'd expect him to value freewill more than people and would be in agreement with him on that, so I also still would love him.

I wouldn't be able to hate the guy who has a connection to hell and values freewill. I wouldn't be worshiping him if he didn't value freewill, as I would have no interest in dealing with a god who doesn't value it.
 

s2a

Heretic and part-time (skinny) Santa impersonator
I was afraid this would happen.

My hypothetical situation asks for people to consider too much that they don't believe is reality. But in this case at least, it is referring to an absolute determination, unchangeable fate.{quote]

Oh?

The entire point of the question is to see in what way people love God.
Presumably, the "god" you claim to "know", at any rate. :) Or "love", if you prefer.

If they would still love God if they knew redemption was not on the other end of the tunnel. Because, as it appears, people either love God to avoid hell or else people love God because of the mercy seen from their perspective. This thought practice is meant to make those people see their God from an outsider perception, and to question if he really is merciful objectively or if the believer only sees him merciful for they are on the side of his mercy.
Unless of course your understanding and perception of your "god", is just a magical thought in a desert mirage.

You might first to wish to inquire as why "your god" placed you in that desert just to "test your faith"?

Is it "mercy" to witness your faith by death of thirst, or hunger?

Secondly, and no less important in any martyred act..., today, when witnessed by no one that cares at all of your outcome?

All I "hear" from you is...don't question what you can not explain, and do no challenge anything that offers no immediate answer.

Then you can be "free"....

Good faith.

Poor science.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Oh?


Presumably, the "god" you claim to "know", at any rate. :) Or "love", if you prefer.

Unless of course your understanding and perception of your "god", is just a magical thought in a desert mirage.

You might first to wish to inquire as why "your god" placed you in that desert just to "test your faith"?

Is it "mercy" to witness your faith by death of thirst, or hunger?

Secondly, and no less important in any martyred act..., today, when witnessed by no one that cares at all of your outcome?

All I "hear" from you is...don't question what you can not explain, and do no challenge anything that offers no immediate answer.

Then you can be "free"....

Good faith.

Poor science.

How in the world did you get that from what I said? I am questioning the faith which I do not belong, but I, on the otherhand, disagree with members of the faith that their deity is explainable and care to test that, and I do my best to test that respectfully.
 
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